34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work • Hacker News Board

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#121

Post by dj_mc_merlin » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #83

I prefer working from the office. And people who code form their laptops from cafés, really? You would spend hours looking at a small 15" screen, straining your neck and back, instead of comfortably using dual-monitor setup and a comfortable chair in the office? Or you like working at home, near your home fridge and playing active kids? Definitely not my cup of tea.

> You would spend hours looking at a small 15" screen, straining your neck and back, instead of comfortably using dual-monitor setup and a comfortable chair in the office?

Yes. I code the best on a shitty laptop with a small screen with no GPU. I'm not kidding, the more plain my computer is the better for programming.

> Or you like working at home, near your home fridge and playing active kids?

Yes that's annoying. But the office isn't much better for me. That's why I usually code past 10PM.

edit: also, damn you. You made me notice my fridge actually makes a sound and I can't unnotice it now.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#122

Post by p0nce » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #83

I prefer working from the office. And people who code form their laptops from cafés, really? You would spend hours looking at a small 15" screen, straining your neck and back, instead of comfortably using dual-monitor setup and a comfortable chair in the office? Or you like working at home, near your home fridge and playing active kids? Definitely not my cup of tea.

> You would spend hours looking at a small 15" screen, straining your neck and back, instead of comfortably using dual-monitor setup and a comfortable chair in the office?

I've did this for 4 years. On a 15" screen even. Your average public library is _way_ more silent that your average open space office. And the idea of working in cafés is that there is people, but no social pressure. Some people work better when being isolated like this. with a bit of training for the ever-moving style, the level of focus is very similar to a comfortable office ; without the chatter and interruptions.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#123

Post by Closi » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #47

Alupis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

34% being unwilling to work in offices does not imply not the 66% prefer to work in offices. It is entirely possible (however unlikely) that 100% of people prefer to work remotely but that 34% demand it. You just can't infer anything about the preferences of the 66% based on the preferences of the 34%. Some jobs have to be done in person, sure. But some jobs don't. Personally the extra two hours a day and reduced str…

> A friend of mine is in software sales. She doesn't need to physically be in an office ever. There are a lot of office jobs that can be done remotely.

Lots of things can be done remotely, but that also doesn't mean that they are all done as well remotely.

To counter your example about software sales - A few months ago I conducted an RFP process for some software, and the company that scored the lowest was the company where the salesperson didn't come and see how the processes worked in person. Their software was likely just as capable, but the fact that they couldn't visit probably put them at a significant disadvantage in terms of understanding what they were replacing. If they don't understand how the existing system works, how can they be confident in their commercial offer which has some significant bespoke elements?

Now this will depend on the software and company, clearly, but sales is sometimes a tricky one. Often it's about the relationship, and fundamentally people also warm to people they have seen face to face. Sometimes sales isn't about the software, it's about sitting in a room and eating Nando's together and building a relationship that way. People don't always buy software just based on functionality/cost, there is often a huge element of trust involved, and that is just harder to build over a video call.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#124

Post by ehershey » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

nomy99 wrote: post #34

kobieyc wrote: post #10

Study finds that 34% of humans are strongly introverted.

Ok so I'll share my personal anecdote. I was of the opinion that I wanted to go back to work. I was tired of the remote work, feeling trapped in my apartment. My office wasn't calling us back till at least July, so I had to figure out a solution -- this was affecting my mental health! So I signed up for wework. Initially it was great, the change in scenery and socializing was a welcome change. However I quickly got v…

Can you elaborate on what was so exhausting? This is a super interesting anecdote to hear!

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#125

Post by sam0x17 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

slow_donkey wrote: post #93

jen20 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s quite bizarre to me that you feel it’s rude to call someone, but not interrupt them at their desk. Calls may be silenced while doing work, walk-up interruptions are much harder to prevent.

So I have the same issue. On Slack, I can't tell if someone is busy - almost no one sets their status as away unless they're actually offline. Whereas in the office it was easier to assess via headphones or if they've just gotten up from their desk etc.

I just message people regardless of if they're in a meeting or whatever. It's asynchronous communication -- they'll get to it when they can.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#126

Post by Kluny » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

User23 wrote: post #3

MattGaiser wrote: post #2

At any given point, half of workers are contemplating leaving. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/27/47percent-of-workers-are-con... The typical office worker spends a half hour searching for new jobs at work every day. https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/in-an-8-hour-day-the-aver... I’m not sure this is a revolution or just that plenty of people have no real attachment to their employer.

Conversely, if an employer isn't willing to let employees do a job remotely after having had a year to see that they're perfectly capable of doing so, they clearly have no attachment to their employees.

My spouse is a workforce analyst. She schedules work packages for a large government agency. She's responsible for the workloads of about 150 people. All have been working from home for a full year, and yes, they are quite capable of doing it. However, overall productivity is down 30%. Since they have good data, she can clearly see which people are close to their normal productivity even when working from home, and which ones are considerably worse. Most people are worse.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#127

Post by benbristow » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

macintux wrote: post #81

spockz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. Why is it more rude to call someone on teams where they can just decline the call than to swivel in your chair and start talking to them? If anything, I think etiquette has improved in our situation. No more in person interruptions or people just hovering at t…

> Why is it more rude to call someone on teams where they can just decline the call than to swivel in your chair and start talking to them? In the office, you can generally observe the state of your co-worker. Are they on a phone call? Are they already talking to someone in person? A phone/Slack/Teams call can be quite disruptive if someone is already in a meeting. We haven't fully adapted work culture to remote work…

I hate Microsoft Exchange/Outlook's calendar system (integrates with Skype for Business/Teams) for that.

A person can be scheduled in for an hour's long meeting but it actually only takes 10 minutes, but you check the person's status after the 10 minutes and it still says 'In a meeting' (usually differentiates with 'In a call' if they're actually in a call, but it's quite unreliable and you don't know if maybe they're having technical problems and are just about to reconnect).

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#128

Post by mym1990 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

benbristow wrote: post #57

MattGaiser wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now But your need for an instant answer often derails my work flow. I can get a lot more done now that I am not being interrupted as frequently and can address questions once I have wrapped up what I am doing or at least have time to write down where specifically I stopped.

Just asking this as a talking point. Does a quick interruption that unblocks me and allows me to continue working outweigh allowing you to finish your thing first? Because maybe you're unblocked but I'm blocked by you now, and the thing that's actually blocking me. So only 1 person is able to work.

Somewhat anecdotal I guess, but at any given point I have 5-10 things that I could be working on. So if I come across something that I am truly blocked on and need more information, then I ask for that info through appropriate channels and move on to priority thing 2.

Understandably this can lead to a lot of context switching, but so can someone swiveling in a chair to ask a question or go down a rabbit hole. You can optimize the process a bit by shifting perspective and having a path to follow if you get blocked, rather than lamenting on how you're blocked(not you in particular, but people in general).

*I feel like it is somewhat rare that a person only ever has 1 specific thing to work on.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#129

Post by tezzer » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #47

Alupis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

34% being unwilling to work in offices does not imply not the 66% prefer to work in offices. It is entirely possible (however unlikely) that 100% of people prefer to work remotely but that 34% demand it. You just can't infer anything about the preferences of the 66% based on the preferences of the 34%. Some jobs have to be done in person, sure. But some jobs don't. Personally the extra two hours a day and reduced str…

I'm a software engineer. I can do my job 100% remotely. I can't wait to get back to the office. I like in-person collaboration, and I really like having separation between my work life and my home life. This year has been torture.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#130

Post by nichochar » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #39

benbristow wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard enough in software engineering IMHO. What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now * Send a Slack message/email and wait an arbitrary amount of time for a response. * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. I spend a stupid amount of t…

> What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now But your need for an instant answer often derails my work flow. I can get a lot more done now that I am not being interrupted as frequently and can address questions once I have wrapped up what I am doing or at least have time to write down where specifically I stopped.

Open spaces suck! https://bytesizetheories.com/posts/open-spaces-suck/