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MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

mitadmissions.org

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Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#121

Post by hntrader »

alexgartrell wrote: post #57
ericmay wrote: post #36

One question on my mind (as someone who has a master's degree and engineering degree and has never taken the ACT/SAT) is how kids will go about showing pure intellectual merit? Like let's say you grow up ok but you can't really afford to join the ski club or for a tutor and maybe you work in the evenings but you crush the SAT/ACT because you're incredibly intelligent. How will universities like MIT take that into acc…

The fundamental issue is that crushing the SAT/ACT is more of a reflection of “mom and dad got me good tutoring or prep” than it is intellectual merit. I “weaseled” my way into CMU via athletic admissions (I was an actual athlete, not a Lori Laughlin style one), but did very well at CMU once I got there. People who aced the SATs did not do as well. Fwiw I still did okay, 32 ACT score, but there were 35/36’s around. I…

  "These standardized tests don’t add much."
Do you have any evidence for this aside from your immediate experience?

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#122

Post by pdonis »

threatofrain wrote: post #109
pdonis wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't everyone go to MIT? Everyone can, online. All of MIT's course content is available for free online: https://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm

It's not really, it's a dumping ground of university assets.

Um, video lectures, lecture notes, problem sets, solutions, and references to textbooks is more than just "a dumping ground". When I look at what's available on OCW for the classes I took when I was at MIT, everything that I got any learning value from is there.

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#123

Post by plank_time »

rudderz wrote: post #58
porb121 wrote: post #13

> we do expect to return to requiring the SAT/ACT once it is possible for everyone to take them safely Fine with this being temporary. Much less fine with the schools who have completely abandoned the SAT/ACT in the name of equality while still considering things like personal essays and extracurriculars, which are way more liable to be gamed by the wealthy than the SAT.

I don't get why students need to be apply to be accepted. Why can't everyone go to MIT? Is there a scarcity on chalk boards, shitty chairs and cinder blocks?

Because you want to have a minimum level of ability so that you can maintain a certain pace of instruction. If you have students of various levels of ability and you teach high tier material, most of those kids will fail and drop out. Why set them up for failure?

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#124

Post by thanhhaimai »

hintymad wrote: post #72
porb121 wrote: post #13

> we do expect to return to requiring the SAT/ACT once it is possible for everyone to take them safely Fine with this being temporary. Much less fine with the schools who have completely abandoned the SAT/ACT in the name of equality while still considering things like personal essays and extracurriculars, which are way more liable to be gamed by the wealthy than the SAT.

It can be permanent. In addition to the effort of removing standard tests, education reforms are happening left and right. San Francisco school union recently decided to remove fast tracks. The union will also delay the teaching of geometry to grade 9, which IMHO will make teaching physics and algebra really hard. I can understand that the motivation of such reform is to improve equity, as numerous studies have shown…

> "delay the teaching of geometry to grade 9"

This part shocks me a little bit. All kids in Vietnam start geometry at grade 6. I have a hard time comprehend what is the difference that makes kids in a developing countries can learn things 3 years ahead of a developed countries.

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#125

Post by exolymph »

sudosysgen wrote: post #38
thaumasiotes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the one hand, it is ridiculous that one of the main metrics used in admissions is a glorified IQ test. On the other hand, it is ridiculous that we don't have a single commonly used standardized-exam that evaluates proficiency and expertise in the core curriculum. You don't like the use of an IQ test in school admissions, and you want to establish an IQ test instead?

Standardized national exams on proficiency in math, languages, science, etc... are very different from IQ tests and only somewhat correlated with IQ, being instead much more strongly correlated with consciensciousness, and generally how good of a student you are and will be.

Conscientiousness itself correlates with IQ.

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#126

Post by alistairSH »

mFixman wrote: post #34
whack wrote: post #21

On the one hand, it is ridiculous that one of the main metrics used in admissions is a glorified IQ test. On the other hand, it is ridiculous that we don't have a single commonly used standardized-exam that evaluates proficiency and expertise in the core curriculum. I know America has a serious NIH syndrome, but the situation could be improved overnight if every single public school adopted the GCSE/A levels or IB cu…

I thought the SATs were similar to the A Levels. What's the difference?

The SAT is a general knowledge/skill test. There's a math section (if memory serves, algebra and geometry, but not trig or calculus) and a language section (reading comprehension, vocabulary. There is an optional essay portion. Each of the 3 sections is weighted the same (800 points, so total of 1600 default, 2400 if you include the essay).

A-Levels are subject exams. They more closely align to AP exams in the US.

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#127

Post by scarmig »

dragonwriter wrote: post #99
hintymad wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be permanent. In addition to the effort of removing standard tests, education reforms are happening left and right. San Francisco school union recently decided to remove fast tracks. The union will also delay the teaching of geometry to grade 9, which IMHO will make teaching physics and algebra really hard. I can understand that the motivation of such reform is to improve equity, as numerous studies have shown…

> The union will also delay the teaching of geometry to grade 9, which IMHO will make teaching physics and algebra really hard. In the usual secondary sequence, Geometry is between Algebra I and Algebra II; doing it in 9th grade, even with a full year precalc after Algebra II, gets you to Calculus I in 12th. with a combined Algebra II/Trig and no separate precalc, which has long been thr common accelerated course, it…

AP Physics is calculus based.

Some other points:

1) SFUSD actually delayed Algebra 1 until 9th grade, not just Geometry.

2) This choice was a bit silly, but beginning algebra concepts are still being taught in middle school. The title of the course is less relevant than the actual content, and this was less of a radical change than the course title makes it sound.

3) The actual issue is that SFUSD eliminated algebra tracking, and for ideological reasons thinks that students who are ready to study calculus in 8th grade must be put into the same classes as students who are struggling with basic arithmetic. Every student has special needs, and it's a disservice to all of them to pretend that a single unified curriculum and classroom is equally suitable to all students.

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#128

Post by dang »

whack wrote: post #21

On the one hand, it is ridiculous that one of the main metrics used in admissions is a glorified IQ test. On the other hand, it is ridiculous that we don't have a single commonly used standardized-exam that evaluates proficiency and expertise in the core curriculum. I know America has a serious NIH syndrome, but the situation could be improved overnight if every single public school adopted the GCSE/A levels or IB cu…

Please omit nationalistic flamebait from your posts to HN, regardless of which country it's about. It may not have led to a nationalistic flamewar in this case, but statistically it very much does, and such threads are the opposite of what we want here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#129

Post by commandlinefan »

kirykl wrote: post #67
nickysielicki wrote: post #61

> Students who have not already taken the SAT/ACT, and cannot find a forthcoming opportunity to do so safely are discouraged from taking the test, in order to protect their personal health, as well as the health of their family and community. We will not make any negative presumptions regarding academic preparation based solely on the absence of SAT/ACT scores, but will instead make the best, most informed decision w…

Loving that full scholarship at a competing school

But not loving that lower salary over the course of a lifetime as much.

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#130

Post by ALittleLight »

rudderz wrote: post #58
porb121 wrote: post #13

> we do expect to return to requiring the SAT/ACT once it is possible for everyone to take them safely Fine with this being temporary. Much less fine with the schools who have completely abandoned the SAT/ACT in the name of equality while still considering things like personal essays and extracurriculars, which are way more liable to be gamed by the wealthy than the SAT.

I don't get why students need to be apply to be accepted. Why can't everyone go to MIT? Is there a scarcity on chalk boards, shitty chairs and cinder blocks?

The admissions criteria is probably most of the value of MIT. If you have a degree from MIT you're probably smart, and we know that because you were able to get in to MIT (and graduate).
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