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Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

libreboot.org

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Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#121

> The list that attacks Richard has Microsoft, Google, OSI, Linux Foundation, Gnome Foundation and Ethical Source people on it! These people oppose Free Software ideologically What ? The Linux Foundation ? It opposes Free Software ? Did I misunderstand this sentence ?

>What ? The Linux Foundation ? It opposes Free Software ? Did I misunderstand this sentence ? Please show me any announcement from The Linux Foundation where they push for free software. They call it "open source" instead, which misses the point: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.... .

It is the FSF's opinion that "open source" misses the point, and it's pretty self-serving for them to have that opinion, because they don't control the term .

The OSI has in recent years been an ardent defender of free software principles, holding fast to the Debian Free Software Guidelines despite corporate pressure to approve various licenses where the source is technically open but fundamental freedoms are gone.

And, importantly, these corporate interests care about labeling their software as "open source" but not about labeling it as "free software." The FSF would say these licenses aren't "free software," but the corporate interests don't want people to think about fundamental freedoms anyway, so they wouldn't mind. It's therefore very important that someone is out there saying that you can't be "open source" either without the fundamental freedoms, and the OSI has been doing exactly that.

The fact that the FSF does not recognize what the OSI is doing for free software and sticks by an essay from roughly 20 years ago consisting of their opinions about users of the term "open source" is evidence of the FSF's continuing leadership failure - the FSF has been completely irrelevant in the discussions about the SSPL etc., which are among the biggest practical threats to free software today, and not only do they not realize that there's a job to be done, they don't realize who's been doing it, either.

But even that decade-old essay has a very clear footnote:

> Lakhani and Wolf's paper on the motivation of free software developers says that a considerable fraction are motivated by the view that software should be free. This is despite the fact that they surveyed the developers on SourceForge, a site that does not support the view that this is an ethical issue.

That is, a lot of people believe in the ethical imperative that the FSF calls "free software," even if they don't themselves phrase it in a way that the FSF approves of.

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#122
You want to know what will cause Free Software to die? It isn't RMS.

The other day I told someone I thought this whole reaction to RMS was stupid. I was instantly labeled as "one of them", and "enabling harmful behavior" and blocked.

This is nothing more than a witch hunt, guilt by association, McCarthyism. Ideological conformity -- march in lockstep with me, or you're the enemy.

That is what will kill free software.

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#123
post #103
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the OSI is filled with people who work for proprietary companies, and open source was made to make free software enterprise. And the Linux Foundation has a bunch of people from companies that also promote largely proprietary technologies... So...yeah. The FSF is the last beacon of morality here, in its own strange, beady-eyed way. I'm not a huge fan of Stallman, myself (I have had many arguments with him), bu…

> I mean, the OSI is filled with people who work for proprietary companies So is GNU, though. For instance, https://gcc.gnu.org/steering.html identifies the affiliations of most of the GCC steering committee, and they're generally proprietary companies. (Several work for Red Hat, a subsidiary of IBM.) Also, if we're going to claim that working for a proprietary-software company means you're not a member of the free s…

> So is GNU, though. For instance, https://gcc.gnu.org/steering.html identifies the affiliations of most of the GCC steering committee, and they're generally proprietary companies. (Several work for Red Hat, a subsidiary of IBM.)

Red Hat releases most things under free licenses and as far as I know everyone on the GCC steering committee from Red Hat was there pre-acquisition. That said, I don't love the GCC steering committee for many reasons (many of which admittedly were before most of their appointments). You are right, though, that much of the steering committee for GCC isn't pro-freedom as much as it is pro-convenience (and in the case of SiFive, is a very proprietary company).

...also, the GCC steering committee isn't representative of all of GNU.

> Also, if we're going to claim that working for a proprietary-software company means you're not a member of the free software movement, the movement is very small indeed.

This is true! I wouldn't say working for one excludes you (though it kind of does), but I would say working for one is incompatible with leading the free software movement or having moral ground to coup it.

> That may be the case, but the FSF has a long history of saying that you can work on free software for profit, too.

You can! It really is wonderful. Nothing I said conflicts, there.

> Frankly, that's why the FSF exists separate from the GNU project - to be a place that you can order physical media with GNU software from and expense it.

Half-truth, but close enough. Again, this doesn't conflict with anything I said.

> This is untrue of the authors of the open letter - you should look at their stated positions on free and proprietary software. (It might be true of some of the signatories, of course.)

That isn't actually true for all of the authors; one I can recall offhand, Garrett works for a company making proprietary software of the worst kind: the type that can kill people. And that's on top of a long history of opinions far more controversial than anything Stallman has been accused of, let alone done (the guy mocked a man who the UN has admitted was being tortured, for example).

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#124
post #43

How about just ask the guy directly? What are his current views?

On pronouns? https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html On society in general? https://stallman.org/articles/necessary-changes.html For anything else, there's a good chance he's written about it on his website.

I have not opened those links so I don't know what RMS is going to say, but what does any of that have to do with free software?

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#125

The writeup begins, "known Thought Criminal Richard M Stallman was falsely accused". So, it immediately implies, using sarcasm, that there is not another potentially valid opinion on this topic, and makes sure anybody with another opinion feels antagonized. I'm not defending any articles with an opposite position - I'm just criticizing this writeup.

I honestly thought this blog post was parody, until I realized it was way too long to be anything but genuine.

Sigh.

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#126
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing Stallman to Eich is a bit weird, isn't it? Stallman hasn't actually done anything harmful; he's just terrible socially.

I'm a bit unfamiliar with Eich, what has he done?

He funded a group trying to prevent homosexuals from having equal rights with everyone else. Regardless of your ethical views on the subject of homosexuals, it's wrong to try and prevent anyone from having freedom, especially in such an undemocratic way as throwing money at it.

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#127
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing Stallman to Eich is a bit weird, isn't it? Stallman hasn't actually done anything harmful; he's just terrible socially.

I'm a bit unfamiliar with Eich, what has he done?

Probably a reference to https://techcrunch.com/2014/03/28/after-supporting-prop-8-br....

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#128
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call it slander. - Stallman is a divisive figure, with questionable opinions outside the realm of free software, opinions he published himself, willingly. - He multiple times ignored the contributions of women, and did so after being corrected. - Lots of women feel uncomfortable close to him due to his behavior. Some of that may be involuntary. - The board reinstated him without an announcement, prior disc…

Have you read the open letter? The points you list above are a lot more milquetoast than the "evidence" against RMS that was posted on the open letter - it performs such disingenuous actions as quoting statements that RMS has since retracted or changed, refusing to admit the fact that he has changed; mischaracterising his suggestion of alternative pronouns as a transphobic attack when in fact RMS has stated that he h…

The point remains the FSF board would have better executed its mission of protecting the FSF by doing absolutely nothing. There was no desperate need to reinstate Stallman. Have they failed to produce any other leaders inside the organization that could take it and move it forward? Isn't there anyone else who could lead it? Stallman won't be able to front it forever and he already conveniently stepped aside. He's still the founder of the movement, and that he'll always be, but the noise he created for no good reason makes it clear he's unfit to lead this movement.

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#129

Complete hogwash, but whatever. Stallman defenders would do well to not overstate his and the FSF's present (not historical) importance to the software community in addition to understating his views and the things he did.

What exactly did he do ? From what I've gathered he gave out cards which was basically an invitation to a date with him should anyone be interested, and he made a very ill-concieved statement regarding harm from children having sex with adults. A really stupid comment but hardly something that would warrant this kind of response, at least unless he doubled down on it. Is this all ?

[deleted]

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#130
post #95
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Am I the only one or has the world gone absolutely batshit insane, driven by purple haired Twitter trans-extremists? One of the things I always thought really great about the Net is that I can be whoever I like. So I think it’s cool that people can redefine and choose whatever pronouns, titles, and names they think are most applicable to them. I met a guy a con who went by “Hugme” and used that name everywhere. I a…

That's the thing, I have no problems with lifestyles, sexual orientations, but what is happening here is that a certain convention is being forced on us, whether we like it or not.

I don’t view it as being forced, I see it as people just expressing their preferences. Although I don’t agree with people spending effort on misuse of pronouns as I think that arguing with trolls is counterproductive. I’ve never experienced any genuine assholery in a professional sense with people not trying to use preferred salutations and in personal life, just ignoring idiots is already required. It seems similar to if someone were to call me a ginger because I have red hair. It’s rude, but not something I expect to experience.

I think the argument over it is bikeshedding and, for me, it’s just something I do to be polite and don’t think about it. In that if you said “Hello, I’m Foo sgt” I would work to call you “Foo sgt” and not “Dr sgt” or “Mr Bob” or whatever.

I want to spend zero cycles on this and move on to important things. Calling people by their preferred handle seems simple to me.

And I skip all the “But shouldn’t you force” stuff.

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