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Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

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Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#121

Post by matthewdgreen »

ianhawes wrote: post #117
ianai wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Biden did say he was going to direct companies to increase semiconductor production. He says critical components need to be identified as a national security concern. A similar effort could be introduced here. Identify what Arabia provides that’s so critical and introduce alternatives as a national security effort.

In the context of tech, KSA has a massive amount of wealth that they’re trying to diversify into other sectors to avoid civil unrest over the next 50 years when oil usage is decreased. So, don’t take VC money funded by KSA? It’s not that simple. You may never know where the money you’re accepting is coming from. While I find the actions of MBS and the assassination to be morally reprehensible, you should be aware tha…

The fact that something is hard to do doesn’t mean that it’s impossible, or that a good faith effort shouldn’t be made. Nor does it mean that those efforts won’t have some deterrent effect that reduces bad behavior in the future.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#122

Post by throwaway-8c93 »

cbozeman wrote: post #91
codq wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably less about raw "innovation" and more about integrating themselves within the fabric of American society. This achieves simultaneous financial investment and political insurance.

It's about survival. The Middle East is not full of stupid people. They all see the writing on the wall. Yes, we will always need petrochemicals, but we're rapidly approaching a world where we need very little of them. In another 80-100 years' time, we'll have nuclear fusion, and if for some reason we've decided we don't want unlimited cheap power with easily disposed of waste, then we'll settle for solar, wind, geot…

Had this been about diversifying their future income streams, the most efficient way would be the most boring one - buy yet another 1% of everything.

Pouring tens of billions into startups with questionable business models, in the world's most overpriced market, while conspicuously avoiding UK, EU, ANzAC and Japan - that's a clear sign they're not in this for money. They're trying to trade money for cultural influence.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#123

Post by Monroe13 »

chmod775 wrote: post #114
ianai wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Biden did say he was going to direct companies to increase semiconductor production. He says critical components need to be identified as a national security concern. A similar effort could be introduced here. Identify what Arabia provides that’s so critical and introduce alternatives as a national security effort.

> Identify what Arabia provides that’s so critical Lots of oil. And money. Mostly oil.

Worth noting that earlier this year US imports of Saudi Oil hit zero. Granted it was just for one week but certainly reflective of the broader trend.

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-06/saudi-oil...

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#124

Post by BasilPH »

ianhawes wrote: post #113
pyrophane wrote: post #73

I am not looking forward to the rehabilitation of MBS's image that will take place over the next couple of years. After Khashoggi was killed, some prominent people took a bit of stand and pulled out of the Future Investment Conference. The narrative there was clear: we don't do business with people who murder journalists. So now, the US has essentially confirmed it: yeah, MBS did in fact have that journalist killed.…

The problem is you need to rectify “MBS had a journalist assassinated” with “The US should stop meddling in the affairs of sovereign nations”.

[flagged]

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#125

Post by chmod775 »

yowlingcat wrote: post #47
neom wrote: post #11

When I was fundraising for my startup, after pitching I always emailed to ask about the LPs and if there's any Saudi/oil money in the pool. More than 10 firms just ghosted me after that email, potentially because they think it's poor form to ask about LPs. (edit:We were still able to raise over $3.5MM seed though, so don't necessarily let asking put you off.)

> potentially because they think it's poor form to ask about LPs. It is, but I'm not sure it's for the reasons you are implying. First and foremost, Saudi money and oil money is an enormous part of global wealth /full stop/. That deep degree of intermixing happened decades ago; there's no putting that cat back in the bag. Asking a question like this to VCs who you are ostensibly trying to make a good first impression…

> It is, but I'm not sure it's for the reasons you are implying.

I'm curious now. Why is it poor form?

> Perhaps you don't, but phrasing it that way is a seriously tonedeaf way to signal it.

So you're saying they should have phrased the question differently - perhaps they did in fact do that.

But I think asking is perfectly legitimate.

Now I'm not implying you said this, but I feel like I should point something out anyways: Raising questions of morality is not poor form because it might make someone uncomfortable about what they're doing. That's kind of what morality is about. "How dare you make me think about the bloodstains on my money" is not exactly a form of indignation that'll get you people rallying in support.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#126

Post by throwaway0a5e »

baybal2 wrote: post #116
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>American relationship with "Middle Eastern North Korea" must be destroyed, Extrapolate that out for half a second please. When the US, the west etc. cuts ties then the KSAs of the world get driven to the arms of Russia and China and other people who will happily do business with them no matter how many journalists they dice up. Ok, so you get the Russias and Chinas and all those other people to cut pretty much all b…

> When the US, the west etc. cuts ties then the KSAs of the world get driven to the arms of Russia and China and other people who will happily do business with them no matter how many journalists they dice up. This political opinion must be subject to the most severe censure, as is the moral character of people who can come with such an idea. FISRT, it's untrue, and dishonest. The world is already driven by Russia's…

>Adherence, or non-adherence to American military aid makes ZERO DIFFERENCE to that. In fact, there are now more receivers of American military aid in Chinese, and Russian pocket than ones who aren't. In other words, the net effect of US military aid is the benefit of allies, and satellites of Russia, and China. This makes no sense.

I never said anything military aid, just business ties.

>SECOND, you lose allies by supporting rogue regimes for reasons ethical, or not.

"we try and do fair business with everyone" has worked out quite well for Switzerland over the last ~500yr and Sweden for the last 100.

>THIRD, USA is not impotent at all to influence KSA. USA is fully capable of erasing KSA regime with a flick of a finger with both military, and non-military options on the table.

>1/3 of KSA population will raise in arms the second its given such opportunity. Economic sanctions on oil, and foreign assets will nuke KSA treasury, and lead to regime fall in at maximum of 2 years. USA military contingent in military bases on KSA soil is big enough to topple the KSA military in days.

>FOURTH, the new Saudi establishment will be naturally more receptive to US influence than the current one which sploshes moneys on states which are not by an inch friendly to USA. Cutting Saudi moneys to rouge states will instantly solve at least halve of USA's headaches in the region.

"QED that's why we should invade Iraq" (or alternatively, replace Iraq with some banana republic in South America). Seriously, listen to yourself. This is the same insane rhetoric that led to the middle east being what it is today. If you just finished it off with "and it's our duty to civilize them" it could pass for something written by a Brit in 1903.

What a bunch of tin pot dictators in a sanbox do isn't our problem. If they wanna do business, sure, fine but it begins and ends there should be keeping all these nations at arms length and not violating their sovereignty interfering with their domestic affairs.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#127

Post by [deleted] »

lolbiden wrote: post #108
pyrophane wrote: post #73

I am not looking forward to the rehabilitation of MBS's image that will take place over the next couple of years. After Khashoggi was killed, some prominent people took a bit of stand and pulled out of the Future Investment Conference. The narrative there was clear: we don't do business with people who murder journalists. So now, the US has essentially confirmed it: yeah, MBS did in fact have that journalist killed.…

If you didn't want business as usual and you wanted an Executive who had a record of peace deals in the Middle East and of standing up to China and who likely would have not been kowtowing at this time you should have voted for Trump because that's who he was This is exactly how Biden was always expected to lead. Weak in the Middle East, a new proxy war already in Syria getting started, weak on China. This is what yo…

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#128

Post by CPLX »

Michael: My father is no different than any powerful man, any man with power, like a president or senator.

Kay Adams: Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed.

Michael: Oh. Who's being naive, Kay?

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#129

Post by KDJohnBrown »

jcims wrote: post #52
m0llusk wrote: post #25

Venture capital is only involved with a fraction of development in Silicon Valley. It may be a large and very loud fraction, but it is still just a fraction. On top of that these well known attention getting firms are just another fraction of the whole. Again, very large and loud, but still just a component. Just to call out one potentially interesting exception, much medical device development goes on in Silicon Val…

Quite a bit of Chinese investment though, no? Different thing entirely but may be of interest to some.

Not just VC but all aspects of American life is subsidized by China. High real estate valuations, university operations wnd expansion and the ability foe the government to take on seemingly infinite debt is significantly impacted by Chinese money. If the CCP forced all Chinese nationals and corporations to withdraw their money from the USA we would be starving in the streets.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#130

Post by baybal2 »

Monroe13 wrote: post #123
chmod775 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Identify what Arabia provides that’s so critical Lots of oil. And money. Mostly oil.

Worth noting that earlier this year US imports of Saudi Oil hit zero. Granted it was just for one week but certainly reflective of the broader trend. Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-06/saudi-oil...

US was never really dependent on Saudi oil, and US governments knew it.

Even before the shale oil, US had no problem to expand its oil production to match its own consumption.

What prevented US oil industry to just work was a very strange regulatory framework where it was both shielded from competition, and prevented from expanding, keeping it in subservient role as a supplier to US strategic petroleum reserve.

For all intents, and purposes the US legislation only benefitted Saudi interests after 1975.

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