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What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

economist.com

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Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#121

Post by notsureaboutpg »

dgellow wrote: post #118
zadler wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d wager that only very progressive and liberal countries would have this degree of openness. Think Switzerland and Holland. Most countries will distribute their own apps (which may also spy on you) and/or use preferred technology partners.

Switzerland isn't considered progressive in any way, in fact it's a very conservative country compared to its neighbors (source: I'm from there).

Progressive used to mean you were concerned with the freedom and liberty of individuals and with transparency in government. That seems closest to "Libertarian" in American terms, and Switzerland, as a neutral country along with other European style politics, seems to fit that bill

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#122

Post by imtringued »

anticristi wrote: post #55
geraldbauer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Important note: bitcoin is a ponzi [1] and not digital gold. Learn how the investment fraud works. [1] https://github.com/openblockchains/bitcoin-ponzi

I thought the real value of Bitcoin is hiding shady deals: drugs, money laundering, etc. Needless to say, there is plenty of that to drive Bitcoin value up.

You are looking for Monero.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#123

Post by jcpham2 »

gillesjacobs wrote: post #104
thendrill wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the bit coin whales? The btc-e money the Mt gox coins. Satoshish original coins and all the gpu miners pre 2012? There are plenty of people walking around with btc wallets with hundreds to thousands of coins that are basically funny money to them. For every btc price cycle there is more usd and less coins in circulation. Selling off 10 btc at the moment on any exchange would tank the price with about 10k u…

> Selling off 10 btc at the moment on any exchange would tank the price with about 10k usd.... That's just not true and I don't even see any reason how it could be. I am looking at the Binance BTC order book and depth chart and 24 BTC sell orders at 56500 just went through. Price is not crashing. Mining and whale centralisation are huge problems and downside in crypto depending on how prevalent it is. I am not saying…

Coinbase moved 400+ BTC in 15 minutes this morning at 7 am ish central time.

I know because I had to move my sell orders higher.

Y’all are crazy. This is not accurate.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#124

Post by imtringued »

jmnicolas wrote: post #3

Digital currencies allow for full tracking of every transactions and are a privacy nightmare. They allow applying negative interest rate on everybody and they would facilitate neverending hyperinflation (no need to print new bills at great expense). Hence they can't coexist with cash so say goodbye to cash. I don't like where we're going.

>They allow applying negative interest rate on everybody and they would facilitate neverending hyperinflation (no need to print new bills at great expense).

The central bank doesn't have hyperinflation as a policy goal though. If you are worried about hyperinflation ask yourself this: Will the economy will suddenly have a collapse in production capacity (nimbys cough cough)? If yes, then expect inflation higher than the policy goal.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#125

Post by anm89 »

wcoenen wrote: post #80
bawolff wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. I guess it feels almost unbelievable that all this fuss is over something so mundane. I guess i dont really understand why though. It sounds like the central bank is thinking about becoming, well, a normal bank. We already have normal banks. Governments can already transfer cash to accounts in normal banks. Governments can already sell bonds to people who want some sort of very stable investment backed b…

> It sounds like the central bank is thinking about becoming, well, a normal bank. We already have normal banks. That's not entirely the right way to think about this. The money in your account at a "normal bank" only exists as a liability of that bank, and thus would disappear if the bank goes under. A CDBC would not be a liability of any bank, it would be equivalent to physical cash. I guess you could still think o…

Technically, at least in the case of the fed, all currency is a liability on the feds blanace sheet, and cbdcs would probably be included in that. That's really just a technicality though.

Sorry to nitpick.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#126

Post by imtringued »

pjc50 wrote: post #50
erentz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the uninitiated some of what you say may sound like conspiracy thinking. But it’s really not. People in ECB have been talking along these lines for over a year. Here is the latest example. [1] The more you follow it the more it really seems like if the people in the ECB had their way they’d force everyone to live paycheck to paycheck and never save. They’ve been running negative interest rates and they don’t work…

Negative rates are only popular because the technocrats can't get expansionary fiscal policy to happen. Because Eurozone governments are boxed in with debt rules. The only way out of this to getting money circulating in the real economy is to go after the giant concentrations of wealth that are distorting the situation so badly.

Yeah, the central bank only has a hammer (interest rates) but its supposed to do jobs that require screwdrivers. That's why it gets dumber and dumber. At some point you apply so much force on your hammer that it can drive screws. That's the idea behind negative interest rates.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#127

Post by imtringued »

nexthash wrote: post #58

I welcome the convenience CBDC provides, but I am absolutely against the abolition of cash. You don't need to be an economist to see that having no cash is a nightmare - every transaction you make across your lifetime is tracked and can be shot down by somebody that is not you. I believe that cash should always exist as an alternative backup to any convenient electronic system. With responsibility comes authority, an…

The problem with electronic cash is the dependence on internet and electricity. That's a very complicated foundation to build your society on. At a minimum you would need to provide free internet access to banking apps and free access to banking devices for it to be a solution for literally every citizen.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#128

Post by imtringued »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #6

They are inherently dangerous, money as a service, with all associated risks. What's next? Car as a service? House as a service? Government as a service? Life as a service?

I'm confused. The current banking system is money as a service.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#129

Post by imtringued »

WEFwoof wrote: post #17
GoblinSlayer wrote: post #6

They are inherently dangerous, money as a service, with all associated risks. What's next? Car as a service? House as a service? Government as a service? Life as a service?

"Welcome To 2030: I Own Nothing, Have No Privacy And Life Has Never Been Better" https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/how-life-could-change... Some people call that utopia "technocratic collectivism", and others still salivate at the mere thought. In any case, it's part of the "new normal" championed by Schwab's WEF.

I remember this article being posted on HN. My response was basically: What prevents a single individual from taking all the free stuff and using it in a wasteful manner?

E.g. you get a car for free, only use it for one trip, scrap it and get another car for the next trip.

Re: What is the fuss over central-bank digital currencies?

#130

Post by ryukafalz »

jayd16 wrote: post #109
ryukafalz wrote: post #87

Here's what I'm most interested in here: right now, if I'm using an alternative mobile OS (besides iOS or Android), it's basically impossible for me to implement digital payments through existing payment networks. On the other hand, because cryptocurrencies are FOSS and very well-standardized, it's very possible to implement a cryptocurrency wallet. If central-bank digital currencies are closer to cryptocurrencies in…

Can't you just use the many existing web payment frameworks? Do you have some more specific requirement?

I should clarify: I mean physical payments with a merchant in person here. If I want to use a digital wallet at an in-person merchant, my only options are to use products by Apple or Google (or possibly both Samsung and Google). If I'm working on software for a non-Android or iOS phone? It's just not an option, not without (what I can only assume are) hugely expensive business deals with banks and card issuers.

A digital currency issued by a central bank, if sufficiently standardized, could lower the barrier to entry here such that it's feasible for developers who don't make billions of dollars in revenue to participate.

(Now, I also think the way credit card payments work right now in general is silly and unsafe, but that's only tangentially related here. Still, I think a digital currency could probably do it better. :)

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