121–130 of 149 posts
Yet another news article that doesn't link the damn paper. "The hygiene hypothesis, the COVID pandemic, and consequences for the human microbiome" > This pandemic intersects with a decades-long decline in microbial diversity and ancestral microbes due to hygiene, antibiotics, and urban living (the hygiene hypothesis). High-risk groups succumbing to COVID-19 include those with preexisting conditions, such as diabetes…
Doesn't help. Unless you have an account it costs 10 USD to read it.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hygiene hypothesis still seems dubious to me. The notion that hygienic lifestyles can lead to a weaker immune system or microbiome is plausible, but I'd actually be pretty surprised if it translated into worse long-term outcomes like life expectancy. Being exposed to lots of pathogens can have some pretty big downsides. We're only just beginning to understand long-term COVID symptoms and it's possible we've missed lo…
I wouldn't argue that returning to hyper non hygiene would be better, but there has been a steady and remarkable rise in Autoimmune diseases, allergies, and asthma in the last few decades. Each of these conditions have long term consequences and complications. The hygiene hypothesis link to the microbiome and "training" of the immune system link is plausible and more and more research is backing it up. Moreover, give…
There is also the hypothesis that the plague epidemics caused a shift to autoimmune diseases because it needed humanity to shift to a more trigger-happy immune system.
Another factor could be the much better state of nutrition than in the old times. Malnutrition has massive negative effects on the immune response, and nutrition was pretty shaky for much of human history, so better nutrition could also cause some autoimmune issues.
The pandemic has also had a severe impact on the mental health of many people. Lockdowns and their consequences have been well-covered, but there also seems to be some effect on people (kids especially) that could be pre-disposed to obsessive-compulsive behaviors, with the constant stress of this looming threat causing children to start obsessively washing their hands and becoming extremely cautious not to get infect…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hygiene hypothesis still seems dubious to me. The notion that hygienic lifestyles can lead to a weaker immune system or microbiome is plausible, but I'd actually be pretty surprised if it translated into worse long-term outcomes like life expectancy. Being exposed to lots of pathogens can have some pretty big downsides. We're only just beginning to understand long-term COVID symptoms and it's possible we've missed lo…
Think of it this way: your body has machinery built to combat pathogens. If there are no pathogens to fight, the bar for what is considered a pathogen lowers until eventually those machines are attacking healthy tissue and can cause many issues. Allergies, Lupus, and many others are already caused by similar mechanisms, and pushing society into ever more clean states will likely lead to more issues. The only real cur…
> Think of it this way: ...
OP already said it's plausible. Your image doesn't add to the evidence at all.
The truth is, we have no idea about immune and gene regulation. A lot of the simplistic understanding you learn in school is falsely making people believe the body is a "machine" we can control or even comprehend. Medicine doesn't know shit.
All we have, are some correlations with an increase in autoimmune disease, allergies and lymphoma, and increasing hygiene. Could also be microplastics or hormone disruptors, social isolation, stress, overweight, lack of sunlight, climate change... .
The immune system is insanely complex and a huge bag of innovation and legacy making many functions redundant and incredibly hard to decipher.
And some "healthy exposure" to pathogens really is a coin toss, as it may not be the contact, but surviving the sickness you benefit from. So a severe fever may slightly decrease your cancer risk, but comes at the risk of dying from, well, severe fever.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Someone put forth the example of polio. It was endemic but not epidemic till the rise of cities facilitated transmission.
Polio is a bit more complicated than that. It's usually harmless in infants; it became a major public health concern only when hygiene resulted in it being contracted later. Epstein-Barr is similar, causing mononucleosis in teenagers but only mild symptoms in children.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"How do you argue with statistics?" Depends on the methodologies used and the conclusions drawn from the numbers. For example, the parent comment was claiming that the average 35 year old overestimates their chances of dying from covid. Your comment states that covid is the leading cause of death. I believe both statements are true. You can see some of this in a quote from the article you posted. "In contrast, for in…
But that's with the measures taken.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
/sigh 30 seconds of Googling and you can find this from the BMJ “Around 10% of patients who have tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 virus remain unwell beyond three weeks, and a smaller proportion for months (see box [1]).[7] This is based on the UK COVID Symptom Study, in which people enter their ongoing symptoms on a smartphone app. This percentage is lower than that cited in many published observational studies,[8][9]…
Only 10% of people with positive test results have "long term" health effects >= 3 weeks? Does that seem frighteningly out of the ordinary compared to other diseases? When I had the flu or pneumonia in the past I could still feel effects over a month later.
But flu should not cause long term effects normally.
We could all lick our phone-screen to counter that problem.
There's a difference between being exposed to dirt and being exposed to viral diseases, though. Playing outside in the leaves will likely trigger healthy immune responses. Contracting COVID-19 may lead to long term health issues.
It's not just dirt. Traditionally people lived in close proximity to a variety of domestic animals. Most viruses originated in animals and then crossed to humans. So our immune systems evolved to cope with that exposure.
The link between obesity and the western diet is stronger than the link between obesity and hand sanitizer.