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Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

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Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#121

Post by 0x426577617265 »

mherrmann wrote: post #116
fmakunbound wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s too fucking hard to setup python with all its pyenv, anaconda, poetry, pip requirements.txt and what-not, that’s the best use case for Docker here. Get it to work once and forget about it.

I also dislike all those tools you mention. So often, I feel like devs use a tool "because it's cool" but fail to appreciate the complexity it adds - not just for themselves but for others. The frustration expressed by your comment is a perfect example of this. In my ideal world, everybody would just use what comes with vanilla Python: python3 -m venv venv source venv/bin/activate (Or `call` on Win) pip install -Ur r…

I agree. Python's virtual environments are awesome and easy to use. On a new server just start with

    apt install python3-venv
Really easy to source the environments as needed during automation, etc.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#122

Post by derkoe »

IntercoolerJS / htmx looks like a really cool solution for server-side rendered HTML with client-side interactivity. All the hype is currently with https://hotwire.dev/ but htmx has more features, seems more solid and even supports older browsers like IE11.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#123

Post by zdkl »

GiorgioG wrote: post #105
mherrmann wrote: post #101

I don't get why people use Docker for "small SaaS apps" where "scale is not an issue". You can run everything without Docker to remove an extra level of indirection. I've been doing that exact thing with a very similar Django stack for years. Not once have I missed Docker. On the other hand, I have taken over SaaS projects where the (unnecessary) usage of Docker made it more expensive to host, decidedly more difficul…

If you know Docker, and use it daily - it’s a no brainer. For me it’s an easy choice - I dev on a Desktop PC but when I’m on the go I’m on a MacBook. No need to customize environment config with docker. What’s your disaster recovery plan if your server tips over? With docker it’s relatively easy. I’m not saying it’s for everyone, but in my experience it makes my life simpler.

>What’s your disaster recovery plan if your server tips over?

Git pull, python3 setup_prod.py, pip install requirements.txt

Is docker worth not writing the 50 (admittedly unfun) lines of setup?

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#124

Post by RMPR »

procinct wrote: post #120
mherrmann wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also dislike all those tools you mention. So often, I feel like devs use a tool "because it's cool" but fail to appreciate the complexity it adds - not just for themselves but for others. The frustration expressed by your comment is a perfect example of this. In my ideal world, everybody would just use what comes with vanilla Python: python3 -m venv venv source venv/bin/activate (Or `call` on Win) pip install -Ur r…

Venv is great for keeping dependencies separate but if your local machine doesn’t have the same version of Python as your server then you’ll need pyenv.

Not necessarily, you can use a CI pipeline to verify that your project can be build with many Python versions. This is the workflow I use here[0]. It makes catching and fixing breaking changes easier. Plus, I'm confident the core team is not likely to introduce a painful breaking change (think Python 2 -> 3) soon[1]

0: https://github.com/rmpr/atbswp

1: https://mobile.twitter.com/gvanrossum/status/130608247244308...

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#125

Post by piaste »

mherrmann wrote: post #108
GiorgioG wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know Docker, and use it daily - it’s a no brainer. For me it’s an easy choice - I dev on a Desktop PC but when I’m on the go I’m on a MacBook. No need to customize environment config with docker. What’s your disaster recovery plan if your server tips over? With docker it’s relatively easy. I’m not saying it’s for everyone, but in my experience it makes my life simpler.

How do you debug (in dev or prod), or in production, do things such as inspecting log files, monitoring system resources, running necessary commands if there is something urgent...? In my experience, Docker just makes everything more tedious without tangible benefits. I personally lose nothing by not using Docker and am much faster in everything I do.

> How do you debug (in dev or prod)

VSCode lets you debug inside a Docker container.

> or in production, do things such as inspecting log files

Logs should be sent out of the container, either directly (mount a /logs folder, push them to Sentry / ELK / etc.) or by simply logging to stdout and having Docker send the logs where you want.

> monitoring system resources

Docker processes are still processes. They show up in `top` and friends just fine.

> running necessary commands if there is something urgent...?

`Docker exec my_container `.

Although I've never even considered doing that. For the past few years the resolution to a production bug has always been "rollback to the previous image, then if any data got borked fix it in the database".

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#126

Post by ducktective »

mherrmann wrote: post #116
fmakunbound wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s too fucking hard to setup python with all its pyenv, anaconda, poetry, pip requirements.txt and what-not, that’s the best use case for Docker here. Get it to work once and forget about it.

I also dislike all those tools you mention. So often, I feel like devs use a tool "because it's cool" but fail to appreciate the complexity it adds - not just for themselves but for others. The frustration expressed by your comment is a perfect example of this. In my ideal world, everybody would just use what comes with vanilla Python: python3 -m venv venv source venv/bin/activate (Or `call` on Win) pip install -Ur r…

and pipx for managing python "apps" like youtube-dl, ipython, meson, ...

https://pipxproject.github.io/pipx/

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#127

Post by mherrmann »

piaste wrote: post #125
mherrmann wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you debug (in dev or prod), or in production, do things such as inspecting log files, monitoring system resources, running necessary commands if there is something urgent...? In my experience, Docker just makes everything more tedious without tangible benefits. I personally lose nothing by not using Docker and am much faster in everything I do.

> How do you debug (in dev or prod) VSCode lets you debug inside a Docker container. > or in production, do things such as inspecting log files Logs should be sent out of the container, either directly (mount a /logs folder, push them to Sentry / ELK / etc.) or by simply logging to stdout and having Docker send the logs where you want. > monitoring system resources Docker processes are still processes. They show up i…

Everything you write is possible, but - and again in every single step of your daily dev work - more tedious than doing things directly. It's just not worth it for me.

But it also sounds like you are operating within a larger organization. So your requirements may be different from mine.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#128

Post by piaste »

mherrmann wrote: post #107
ahmedalsudani wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allow me to offer a counterpoint. Docker is useful for reasons besides scale. It allows you to (kind of) declaratively define your environment and spin it up in any number of different scenarios. It allows you to ship all your dependencies with your app and not worry about getting the host machine properly configured beyond setting up Docker and/or Kubernetes. Have other apps you want to host on the same set of machi…

How many scenarios do you typically need to spin up your environment in? I achieve the same (defining the environment) by pinning Python dependencies via requirements.txt and virtual environments. And I have an installation script, like a Dockerfile but just an executable bash script, that installs PostgreSQL etc, pulls the code from GitHub and starts up the server. I can upload this to a clean Debian installation to…

> I don't. I just use one $5 per month Linode for each SaaS

Well then you're basically using VMs as your containerization mechanism, with install scripts replacing Dockerfiles.

So from your perspective, don't think of Docker as a really fat binary. Think of it as a stripped-down VM that doesn't cost a minimum of $5 per instance, and comes in a standardized format with a standardized ecosystem around it (package registries, monitoring dashboards, etc.)

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#129

Post by bschwindHN »

mherrmann wrote: post #116
fmakunbound wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s too fucking hard to setup python with all its pyenv, anaconda, poetry, pip requirements.txt and what-not, that’s the best use case for Docker here. Get it to work once and forget about it.

I also dislike all those tools you mention. So often, I feel like devs use a tool "because it's cool" but fail to appreciate the complexity it adds - not just for themselves but for others. The frustration expressed by your comment is a perfect example of this. In my ideal world, everybody would just use what comes with vanilla Python: python3 -m venv venv source venv/bin/activate (Or `call` on Win) pip install -Ur r…

I also dislike all the commands you just mentioned. In my ideal world, everybody would just

    ./the-program

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#130

Post by ehou »

mherrmann wrote: post #101

I don't get why people use Docker for "small SaaS apps" where "scale is not an issue". You can run everything without Docker to remove an extra level of indirection. I've been doing that exact thing with a very similar Django stack for years. Not once have I missed Docker. On the other hand, I have taken over SaaS projects where the (unnecessary) usage of Docker made it more expensive to host, decidedly more difficul…

For multi tenant deployments. Each tenant gets its own docker-compose in a directory on prod and voila: 100% same code base (same Docker image) and good separation between tenants
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