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NSA UFO Documents Index

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Re: NSA UFO Documents Index

#121

Post by jablongo »

jrowen wrote: post #96
motohagiography wrote: post #35

Went through the CIA one as well, and it's almost designed to be opaque and vague. UFO's create interesting ethical questions and can be useful thought experiments for contemporary issues. A good one is where, say you are checking in on a civilization to see whether it's about to become space faring, and given the amount of energy required for it, the tech is dangerous to any other civilization these recent space arr…

I don't think these are dumb questions at all They're not, but they're also somewhat orthogonal to "UFO culture." You're describing a philosophical/sociopolitical discussion that isn't really informed by a blip on a grainy video frame. The question that's more relevant to UFOs, in my opinion, is "Why would these aliens, with their unimaginably superior technology, travel all the way here and reveal themselves in such…

Your last point is a good one, but there are a many ways that you could be wrong. To name one: The Von Neumann probe is a compelling model and it is more likely that we would see something fitting that description rather than the original form of an extraterrestrial intelligence. We have no good reason to think that such an advanced civilization would have mastered faster than light communication either. So the behavior of these cylinders, assuming they are VN probes, may only be simplistic surveying routines which have been running for tens of thousands of years and were not at all designed for interacting with humans. There may also be resource constraint issues present in the construction of self replicating Von Neumann probes that make the type of interaction you are hoping for infeasible, in terms of compute, agenda, or something else we aren’t aware of.

Re: NSA UFO Documents Index

#122

Post by levmiseri »

nycdatasci wrote: post #4
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #3

The redactions on some of these documents are absolutely ridiculous. What is the point for releasing documents in a state that leaves them completely useless.

Some of these are interesting. Here's one that is completely unredacted: https://www.nsa.gov/Portals/70/documents/news-features/decla...

Made a transcription of this one for easier reading: https://kvak.io/?n=cpga1l1t1a144

Re: NSA UFO Documents Index

#124

Post by tmn »

jrowen wrote: post #96
motohagiography wrote: post #35

Went through the CIA one as well, and it's almost designed to be opaque and vague. UFO's create interesting ethical questions and can be useful thought experiments for contemporary issues. A good one is where, say you are checking in on a civilization to see whether it's about to become space faring, and given the amount of energy required for it, the tech is dangerous to any other civilization these recent space arr…

I don't think these are dumb questions at all They're not, but they're also somewhat orthogonal to "UFO culture." You're describing a philosophical/sociopolitical discussion that isn't really informed by a blip on a grainy video frame. The question that's more relevant to UFOs, in my opinion, is "Why would these aliens, with their unimaginably superior technology, travel all the way here and reveal themselves in such…

I’ve been looking through these ufo threads and haven’t seen anyone address the third explanation. I’m somewhat impulsively replying to you as your might receive this well. Most of the credible ufo phenomenon is likely a psyop. I won’t get into why the cia or other would put forth such efforts beyond reciting the quote “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false”. It’s “controversial” if William Casey actually said that, but this fills in the gaps that can’t be explained away by witness confusion or delusion, without requiring a belief in some unseen technology that’s always conveniently dangled out of sight. The cia also says they’ve been doing telepathy, astral projection, and the like. The disinformation program is definitely real.

Re: NSA UFO Documents Index

#125

Post by tmn »

jk7tarYZAQNpTQa wrote: post #100
searine wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the reports of "UFOs" and their characteristics in flight come from untrained, and unreliable sources. It's not stupid to be open minded, but it is stupid to ignore plausible explanations of phenomenon because you are hoping to find something new.

> Most of the reports of "UFOs" and their characteristics in flight come from untrained, and unreliable sources. Agreed. But when you filter all those, you are left with a huge pile of true UFO reports, that come from trained personnel, radar operator, astronomers, etc. Look at the conclusions of Blue Book.

Maybe it’s real. Maybe it’s a psyop. I know such a radar technician (not one who ‘witnessed’ such phenomena)that has classified access who sides on psyop

Re: NSA UFO Documents Index

#126

Post by nervousvarun »

motohagiography wrote: post #111
deeeeplearning wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A good one is where, say you are checking in on a civilization to see whether it's about to become space faring, and given the amount of energy required for it, the tech is dangerous to any other civilization these recent space arrivers might find. The question is whether they're going to pose a threat to the regional galactic order, and if they haven't got their cultural act together, do you let them? Seems a stran…

You'd think, but we subvert and bomb Iran every time they get close to enriching uranium, so there are precedents, if perhaps not on the same relative scale. The other question is why not just domesticate us and what kind of evolutionary impact does domestication have on a species? As someone who "educates," horses and dogs to live in an inescapable human dominion, in doing so, I shape them into something other than…

The "Uplift" books by David Brin basically use this idea. They were popular I think in the 80s-90s.

In his books, an enlightened species "uplifts" an inferior one that has potential and after being helped...they sortof serve a period of time as pets/servants until they demonstrate that they can be part of galactic civilization.

Humans blunder into all of this by accident when they begin exploring space. Normally the knowledge of physics required for space travel is a side-effect of being uplifted. It's not discovered, it's taught. But we didn't do it the normal way.

If I remember correctly humans after learning this is sortof how it's done begin "uplifting" dolphins. The uplift process involves genetic engineering and education, etc.

One of the core mysteries in the books for the other enlightened species out there is did someone uplift humans?

It's been a while so I probably butchered that.

Re: NSA UFO Documents Index

#127

Post by King-Aaron »

deeeeplearning wrote: post #101
Pyramus wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing two crucial things: UFOs doesn't mean aliens, it's simply unidentified objects. Unless you really do want to speculate about aliens ... > "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" The evidence gathered by David Fraser et al. is actually quite compelling. Definitly there seem to be natural phenomena that can't be explained by our current scientific understanding.

It's really not, its almost completely eyewitness based and regardless of their "expertise," eyewitnesses are almost completely worthless and certainly do not qualify as "compelling evidence" in the arena of Science.

> almost completely eyewitness

There was positive radar and flir data, along with multiple witnesses from their air group. Not 'almost completely eyewitness' accounts, which makes their observations rather compelling.

My moneys on some actor - US or another state - having some kind of exotic aircraft that aren't on the books.

Re: NSA UFO Documents Index

#128

Post by jrowen »

jablongo wrote: post #121
jrowen wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think these are dumb questions at all They're not, but they're also somewhat orthogonal to "UFO culture." You're describing a philosophical/sociopolitical discussion that isn't really informed by a blip on a grainy video frame. The question that's more relevant to UFOs, in my opinion, is "Why would these aliens, with their unimaginably superior technology, travel all the way here and reveal themselves in such…

Your last point is a good one, but there are a many ways that you could be wrong. To name one: The Von Neumann probe is a compelling model and it is more likely that we would see something fitting that description rather than the original form of an extraterrestrial intelligence. We have no good reason to think that such an advanced civilization would have mastered faster than light communication either. So the behav…

That’s true, though I suspect in that case it would be a known object with ample evidence (a la Rendezvous With Rama) or undetected.

It’s definitely possible to imagine a scenario where a handful of people or “the government” somehow witnessed the only fleeting evidence of its existence in our atmosphere, but it still seems exceedingly unlikely.

Re: NSA UFO Documents Index

#129

Post by marc_io »

INTPenis wrote: post #57
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how you can't at least find this document interesting. It's a first hand account of what was basically a dogfight between a US pilot and a UFO over Iran. https://www.nsa.gov/Portals/70/documents/news-features/decla... Even if you assume that whatever he encountered was made on Earth, its hard not to have questions or be interested in the account.

That's an excellent example. Thanks for finding it. I'd rather believe this was a combination of natural phenomenon and instrumentation failure than an alien visiting us from far far away. After reading the text that doubt is definitely still strong. It starts with conflicting reports from people on the ground. They are never able to identify what it was. And also the text reads as if it was written by a "believer" i…

> This whole report makes me question the sanity of everyone involved.

It's very unlikely that a highly trained professional military pilot, which operates a incredibly sophisticated machine costing millions of dollars, suffers from mental issues.

Re: NSA UFO Documents Index

#130

Post by [deleted] »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #83
NationalPark wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can pretty summarily dismiss all of this with, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Given that every inch of the developed world is now covered with high resolution cameras, and UFO sightings via these devices have suspiciously not exploded in number, it's pretty clear that these reports were misidentifications, lies, and counterintelligence operations. Would it be cool if aliens were han…

I challenge you to take one of these high resolution cameras and take a photo of the moon. Then take one and take a photo of a jetliner where the make of the jet is comprehensible. Yes we all carry around cameras but the sensor and lens sizes are all so small they are next to useless at night without a huge helping hand of ML based photo retouching or similar.

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