WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app • Hacker News Board

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#121

Post by utf_8x » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

domano wrote: post #115

utf_8x wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO it works just as well and unlike Telegram it's actually credible... The telegram crypto is an absolute disaster and they have been pretty shady and defensive when asked about it in the past. Not to mention the back-end is closed-source. Also, the desktop clients still don't support encryption, many years after it's been first requested.

Do you have some links regarding their disastrous encryption? The security guys i know speak highly of telegram and AFAIK it has been open sourced recently, but i am open to new information.

The Telegram backend is still closed-source as far as I know. The problem with their crypto is that nobody really knows if it's secure or not because it's closed and unverified.

Ever heard the first rule of encryption? "Never roll your own crypto". Well they broke the rule and they won't let anyone check if the crypto is secure or not.

Not to mention encryption is off by default and your plaintext messages are stored on their servers...

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#122

Post by domano » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

I have never used WhatsApp so that anyone i know either needs to send SMS or install Signal - only started working in the last 2 years tho.

Nowadays most people i know have signal installed alongside WhatsApp, i even migrated my mother.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#123

Post by input_sh » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

sagivo wrote: post #71

utf_8x wrote: post #62

Once again - Signal[0] as an alternative. It's fully Open-Source (including the backend) and their crypto is public and independently verified[1][2][3]... [0] https://signal.org/en/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#Encryption_p ... [2] https://threatpost.com/signal-audit-reveals-protocol-cryptog ... [3] https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/1013.pdf [PDF]

How is it compared to telegram?

Telegram is only end-to-end encrypted in a feature called secret chats. Groups and channels and individual chats are not end-to-end encrypted.

In other words, Telegram doesn't even deserve to be in the same conversation. Even if it had the best encryption out there (however you define that), that wouldn't mean anything when it's not used in like 98% of the cases (percentage pulled out of my ass).

It's like comparing Signal to Facebook's Messenger, and I'd still say Messenger over Telegram because at least it uses Signal's protocol under the hood (I believe the feature is called hidden conversations) instead of inventing its own thing and ignoring the expert opinions.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#124

Post by subaquamille » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

FalconSensei wrote: post #82

dijit wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I contact the majority of my friends with telegram, the UX is similar enough and people get on board quite quickly- the difficult part is convincing someone to install /another/ messaging app- if they have network effects too then it's a hard sell. But once most people have both it gets easier. Signal (UX wise) is not really super great for my family, I burned a lot of my "technical expert advisor" capital and reputa…

I had success at least moving my parents and sister to chat with me on Telegram. I was having weird issues with Telegram video call (very low sound on my parent's phones), so I still had to call them on Whatsapp. Also, didn't find any audio call option on Telegram, only video call.

Contrats ! Genuine question: Why don't you use phone call for audio-only calls ? In my experience the quality is better and degrades better. Is it because of bundles quota? In my country most plans includes unlimited voice but not sure what's the "world norm".

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#125

Post by KorematsuFred » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:16 PM UTC

rpastuszak wrote: post #19

Signal and Telegram seem to be the most commonly mentioned alternatives here. Which one do you prefer and why?

Prefer Telegram. My p2p communication is minimal and I manage dozens of groups with thousands of members. Telegram not only handles this but provides a lot of tools to manage groups effectively.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#126

Post by alexandrerond » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:16 PM UTC

For people looking to switch to Signal without Google Play services on Android (apk installation), the best way to fix the websocket battery drain is this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/ewp99j/disable_webs...

Unlike Telegram, WhatsApp, Element etc. which work fine without Google, Signal devs have repeteadly refused to make improvements to the "always-awake" mode which happily eats 40% battery.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#127

Post by j-james » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:16 PM UTC

utf_8x wrote: post #80

sagivo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it compared to telegram?

IMO it works just as well and unlike Telegram it's actually credible... The telegram crypto is an absolute disaster and they have been pretty shady and defensive when asked about it in the past. Not to mention the back-end is closed-source. Also, the desktop clients still don't support encryption, many years after it's been first requested.

Telegram's MTProto 2.0 encryption protocol was recently proved correct, but I haven't seen any peer review or discussion on the paper yet.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2012.03141

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#128

Post by generalizations » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:18 PM UTC

Everyone is comparing signal vs. telegram, but what about element? Far as I can tell, that might actually be secure.

https://element.io/

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#129

Post by aairey » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:18 PM UTC

frombody wrote: post #107

utf_8x wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but you have to consider the app needs to be user friendly to see any real adoption... Don't get me wrong, I love Riot (or whatever it's called these days) but it's just not user-friendly for your average Joe...

Honestly if they just picked a different emoji collection, I would be happy.

Pssh ... kids these days.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#130

Post by swiley » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:18 PM UTC

utf_8x wrote: post #62

Once again - Signal[0] as an alternative. It's fully Open-Source (including the backend) and their crypto is public and independently verified[1][2][3]... [0] https://signal.org/en/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#Encryption_p ... [2] https://threatpost.com/signal-audit-reveals-protocol-cryptog ... [3] https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/1013.pdf [PDF]

Stop promoting services with no federation, they'll just end up in the same spot 10 years from now.

EDIT: To the people downvoting this: I said the same thing a long time ago about whatsapp before Facebook bought them.