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Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

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Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#121

Post by pwarner »

kd913 wrote: post #11

I remember watching a video from Wendover Production talking about the decline of 747 and A380s mainly due to a lack of guaranteed passengers to fill the plane routes in both directions. Exceptions being some airlines which are able to operate hub and spoke models and where fuel is cheap like the middle east airlines. Wouldn't these types of planes be more suitable for a role in logistics which can benefit the greate…

The A380 is harder to load cargo into so they never even built a cargo version. The 747 freighter is still being produced and delivered today! Look up and see a contrail lately and it might be a 747 freighter, they are all flying!

https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-747-resurgence-in-car...

https://simpleflying.com/ups-boeing-747-deliveries/

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#122

Post by bg24 »

grogenaut wrote: post #32
moltar wrote: post #21

I predicted in October of 2018 [1], that in 3 years Amazon will start flying freight directly from China to US fulfillment centers and cut out the middlemen (FBA sellers). Since then Amazon has been on-boarding sellers in China at a rapid pace. - [1] https://www.scaleleap.com/zine/just-in-time-air/

To me in 2014 it was really dumb that Chinese sellers were using USA middlemen to get on Amazon instead of just directly selling on Amazon. In general it seems dumb that any manufacturer isn't just selling direct to consumer if they have a consumer finished product on Amazon. However one insight into the reason is embedded in this anecdote: My friend was asked by a Chinese supplier to sell a thing on Amazon. But the…

Ouch! Doing business is tough. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#123

Post by forgingahead »

grogenaut wrote: post #32
moltar wrote: post #21

I predicted in October of 2018 [1], that in 3 years Amazon will start flying freight directly from China to US fulfillment centers and cut out the middlemen (FBA sellers). Since then Amazon has been on-boarding sellers in China at a rapid pace. - [1] https://www.scaleleap.com/zine/just-in-time-air/

To me in 2014 it was really dumb that Chinese sellers were using USA middlemen to get on Amazon instead of just directly selling on Amazon. In general it seems dumb that any manufacturer isn't just selling direct to consumer if they have a consumer finished product on Amazon. However one insight into the reason is embedded in this anecdote: My friend was asked by a Chinese supplier to sell a thing on Amazon. But the…

They then also refused to give a unique license to the product for Amazon to my friend

This is a deal-breaker always for these types of arrangements. I've walked away after months of negotiations when suppliers renege of this key part of any distribution agreement. You cannot be in a position to build up someone else's product or brand, and have them take it away from you at their own discretion, with zero compensation to you. You should not also be diluting your marketing efforts for said product if the supplier is handing out distribution rights like candy.

Get exclusive agreements always. You'll likely need to pay some sort of minimum guarantee, but you can negotiate a rolling start, and if the product is not present in the market, you have leverage to get terms in your favour (ie, exclusive to you, but no sales guarantee for the first 6 months, to "test out the market"). This should still be outlined in writing and signed by both parties.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#124

Post by tyingq »

verhey wrote: post #66
simonh wrote: post #19

This reminds me of when Ryanair bought 100 Boeing 737-800 aircraft in 2002 after 9/11 hammered the airline industry[0], a very bold forward looking move. It was good for Ryanair and for Boeing. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2002/jan/24/theairlinei...

Boeing isn't really gaining much from this. The 767s Amazon is acquiring are ex-Westjet (previously Qantas) and Delta passenger aircraft, and likely last saw a Boeing factory somewhere around 15-25 years ago. That said, Alaska just put in another order for MAXes, and Ryanair is buying more as well. Part of why these 767s were available for Amazon to purchase at all were due to the industry model shifting and airlines…

Aside from the 320neo, the A220 also competes with the MAX...the 7's anyway.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#125

Post by laverya »

jychang wrote: post #113
throwaway201103 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A MAX will certainly crash again, as all aircraft types occasionally do. Whether this shakes public confidence will be how soon it happens, and (secondarily) for what reason.

Reason would be really important. One MAX crashing from something like the SeaTac Q400 incident[1] wouldn't affect Boeing at all. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Horizon_Air_Q400_incident

It shouldn't affect Boeing at all, in a logical world.

Does anyone actually believe we live in such a world today, though?

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#126

Post by mensetmanusman »

contingencies wrote: post #86
moltar wrote: post #21

I predicted in October of 2018 [1], that in 3 years Amazon will start flying freight directly from China to US fulfillment centers and cut out the middlemen (FBA sellers). Since then Amazon has been on-boarding sellers in China at a rapid pace. - [1] https://www.scaleleap.com/zine/just-in-time-air/

This is likely a net good for the consumer, since it nominally lowers costs, increases reliability, and reduces time to delivery. However, there is an antitrust risk of monopolization. It's a case in which Amazon, the producer and the consumer have aligned interests, until Amazon turns around and screws everyone who have become dependent. Undercapitalized niche middle men still running on ancient oasis merchant middl…

Bad for the environment though, there is cost arbitrage happening due to lack of regulation

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#127

Post by mannykannot »

nickff wrote: post #114
mannykannot wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 60-minute rule does not explain or justify your 133% claim with respect to four-engined aircraft - in fact, it is evidence against it: in practice, four-engined airliners, unlike twins, could tolerate more than a single engine failure.

I just looked at a few airliners, and the 2-engine aircraft all had significantly higher power to weight ratios than the 4-engine aircraft.

That does not justify your 133% figure, nor the explanation you gave for it. That explanation implied that four-engined airliners could only tolerate the loss of a single engine.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#128

Post by ethbr0 »

mimikatz wrote: post #112
victor9000 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do the same thing at Whole Foods with their 365 brand.

and at Costco with Kirkland and Wal-Mart with great Value and Target and something

I'd say the difference is inventory costs.

Most box retail seems to clone high-sales-volume items.

Amazon can afford to clone the long tail, because they'll still make profits off it.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#129

Post by pdxandi »

abrowne wrote: post #118
RyJones wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From another angle, here in the Seattle area, I often see USPS trucks delivering Amazon packages on Sunday.

But that's all those trucks are doing on a Sunday, since USPS doesn't deliver mail on Sundays.

The USPS delivers Priority Mail Express on Sundays.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#130

Post by unethical_ban »

verhey wrote: post #66
simonh wrote: post #19

This reminds me of when Ryanair bought 100 Boeing 737-800 aircraft in 2002 after 9/11 hammered the airline industry[0], a very bold forward looking move. It was good for Ryanair and for Boeing. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2002/jan/24/theairlinei...

Boeing isn't really gaining much from this. The 767s Amazon is acquiring are ex-Westjet (previously Qantas) and Delta passenger aircraft, and likely last saw a Boeing factory somewhere around 15-25 years ago. That said, Alaska just put in another order for MAXes, and Ryanair is buying more as well. Part of why these 767s were available for Amazon to purchase at all were due to the industry model shifting and airlines…

I need to fly on an A380 before they become dinosaurs.
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