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GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

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Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#121
post #3

Can't really blame GitHub here... US laws are badly written.

It's alright to blame people for lawfully following harmful laws.

It's not. You have a literal state actor backed with an army demanding money if you don't comply.

I'll pick the legal way unless the profits I can make somehow outweigh the sanctions (legislators can make mistakes too) and there are no penal repercussions.

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Especially us europeans should not rely on American services at all.It's not worth it. Sure, please let me know how the EU plans to build Office 365, AWS, GitHub competitors of similar scale, quality and success. We have no private investors that would pony up enough money to go against US tech titans and fat chance the EU would ever fund such initiatives and if they would, the money would evaporate over night to co…

I generally agree with your post (we both made the mistake of posting during EU peak times and not US peak times, so downvotes incoming), but it's worth noting that Airbus is a success story bolstered by the now-EU to combat American aerospace dominance.

I love Airbus, but they're not a software company and since we live in the age of cloud-everything, software has eaten the world and all our mobile tech is controlled by two US walled gardens (apple and google) that is a lot more potentially impactful on our daily lives on multiple levels of our society than what Airbus could do.

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#123
post #110

So many dimensions come to play here. 1. There's the obvious legal aspect i.e. how these laws are framed and interpreted. 2. Then there's the geopolitical aspect. Is it fair to impose sanctions on Iran. 3. There's another aspect around GitHub policy that asks if an entire organization be banned for the location of one team member. 4. Finally, there's the aspect of relinquishing control. Your app development is on the…

> You have relinquished so much control, why be surprised if that stares you back in the face? We live in a market-based economy with highly specialized division of labor. The idea of "keeping control" of all our necessities and dependencies, is an archaic one. The system generally works, because we create sensible laws that foster trust, vet for partners who are trustworthy, and name-and-shame entities that violate…

There is plenty of solutions that are keeping the data in-house. Or allow for easy exporting/importing (github is not too bad in this regard though). None of these solutions go against the "highly specialized division of labor". This is a question about what kind of solutions we build, not how labor is divided or not.

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#124

Entrusting your business to an american entity is the stupidest idea you could have thought about. Especially us europeans should not rely on American services at all.It's not worth it. American corporations are just as much a liability as their counterparts in China.

The top 33 "software and programming" companies by revenue in the world can be found below [0]. 28 of them are American. Two are in the EU. One is in the UK. One is in Australia. The last is Russian. One of the companies in the EU produces enterprise software almost no one on this website uses (SAP). The other is Dassault. In the US the top five companies are Microsoft, Oracle, ADP, Adobe, and Salesforce. If you incl…

> One of the companies in the EU produces enterprise software almost no one on this website uses (SAP)

What? SAP is a huge software that is used in a lot of companies.

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem rather outraged by the sensible assumption that parents living in Iran are probably Iranian, and that a person with two Iranian parents is probably also Iranian. In 2021, people are still directly related to their parents, and the majority of citizens in most countries is indeed the local population. They may of course have obtained American citizenship now, but we're talking in the context of crazy US sanct…

Such presumptions have, historically, led to such actions as the wholesale internment of Japanese Americans during World War II. This included 2nd and 3rd generations born in America, who never had left America. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America... So, no, it's not merely a "sensible" assumption. It's an assumption that carries collective trauma and negative connotations for many wh…

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Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#126

Please please PLEASE add at least one other provider to your remotes if you're going all in on cloud. Consider also doing a regular local backup of all your repos. A quick Google search will yield you tools that will automate this entire process on platforms such as GitHub , BitBucket and GitLab. I personally delegated this to a Cron job. I check the backups manually once a month to check all is in order.

This is good advise. Maybe even self-host a backup server.

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#127

Github refused to help me regain access to an 11 year old account when I changed jobs so lost access to 2FA and email account at the same time. We lost access to tens of thousands of dollars worth of project code which we had to rewrite. The customer service support was Google style brick wall. I wish this guy luck in getting access.

To me that sounds perfectly reasonable, and in fact a good policy. It seems like you lost access to your company account, based on your comment, so who is "we" that lost thousands of dollars worth of project code? If it was your employer that you had the email with, why couldn't you just restore the email?

What in your opinion should github do when an employee loses access to their company email, and 2FA, because they're fired? Should the employee gain access to all the code and the account by just contacting github via their personal email?

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#128

I'm on GitHub/Microsoft's side here. They are not responsible for the content of US export control laws, and they have an incredible amount to lose if they are found to be in violation of US export control laws. Presumably GitHub needs some automated tool to prevent inbound traffic from sanctioned countries, and it's hard to be certain that they are complying with US law if such automated tools have some wiggle room…

> They are not responsible for the content of US export control law

But they are responsible for understanding what's required under those laws. If they're going beyond what's required to comply with the law, then those further actions are entirely on them.

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top 33 "software and programming" companies by revenue in the world can be found below [0]. 28 of them are American. Two are in the EU. One is in the UK. One is in Australia. The last is Russian. One of the companies in the EU produces enterprise software almost no one on this website uses (SAP). The other is Dassault. In the US the top five companies are Microsoft, Oracle, ADP, Adobe, and Salesforce. If you incl…

> One of the companies in the EU produces enterprise software almost no one on this website uses (SAP) What? SAP is a huge software that is used in a lot of companies.

Correct. I'm also willing to bet the people on Hacker News are not typically in the circle of businesses that use SAP.
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