Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors • Hacker News Board

Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#121

Post by slg » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

Jommi wrote: post #114

slg wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not ignoring anything. I am simply pointing out the 7/8 majority is so impractical that it is a worthless addition that only serves the appearance of making the law appear amendable but in practice it can only truly be amended by the popular vote.

Yes, and amending by popular vote is the norm. What exactly is the issue here again?

As I said several comments ago:

>It is relatively standard for propositions to include some ways for the legislature to amend the law. It isn't a full legal requirement, but it is common.

Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#122

Post by amluto » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 3:27 PM UTC

foogazi wrote: post #104

amluto wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps we could decouple benefits from employment so that 8 hours of gig work per day would actually add up to roughly the same thing as 8 hours per day of employment.

if we are serious about benefits for everyone then make it available to everyone: healthcare, retirement options, sick days, unemployment remove the tax benefits around employer health plans, or exclusivity of 401k plans Then it doesn’t matter if you have a hotdog cart, shine shoes or are a white collar worker.

Decoupling health care from employment doesn’t actually require making it universal. Private individual insurance would also work.

(I’m not advocating for this — I’m just pointing out that private insurance does not require employment, and the US could easily get rid of the incentives for employers to provide insurance.)

Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#123

Post by julienb_sea » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:15 AM UTC

ndespres wrote: post #36

julienb_sea wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is denying that independent contractors deserve dignity and stability. Imposing a forced employment framework violates the dignity of non-full time contractors who want a side income to supplement their normal job. This discussion also should account for the benefit to society of having safe and low cost transportation and delivery options, which raises the dignity of many people who otherwise could not afford…

This is a story about a grocery store chain replacing their own employees who perform a job at the company, with "independent contractors" from a 3rd-party service. I'm not sure what case you're trying to make, whose dignity are you saying is violated? Who said anything about taxis? Why are you arguing to me against raising minimum wage, when all I said was that people deserve a living wage?

I'm a bit late in answering. I brought up the decentralization and deregulation of taxi transport (via Uber / Lyft) because I believe the impacts - significantly lowering cost and improving availability of transportation - are a net societal benefit, despite reduced wage stability. This improves public safety, creates incentives against drunk driving, creates affordable alternatives to lengthy public transit rides.

Grocery delivery is a similar case - for many, reducing the cost and improving availability of grocery delivery is a significant benefit. Instead of being the domain of the wealthy, it is massively more available to the average person.

"Living wage" is used to argue that people are owed wages higher than the market would actually pay. Lots of jobs pay vastly higher than living wages - not for fun, but because the supply of workers is more scarce and the economic output of the job is higher. Minimum wage is how we as a society have defined a floor for what is an acceptable job, which I think is intimately associated with the construct of a living wage.

Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#124

Post by mushbino » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:36 PM UTC

Jommi wrote: post #115

mushbino wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prop22 requires a 7/8 majority in the house to overturn (practically impossible).

You should research this more. Having even a possibility for voting to amend a law is not the normal. Usually proposition can't be overturned at all.

https://calmatters.org/politics/post-it/2020/10/california-a...

Re: Vons, Pavilions to Replace Drivers with Independent Contractors

#125

Post by _hyrb » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 4:35 AM UTC

bryan_w wrote: post #23

bpodgursky wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's repealable the same way it was passed: by popular vote.

Seems like @d2v has fallen for some misinformation. They think this law is "unrepealable" which doesn't even make sense if you take half a second to think about it. Kinda says more about them than anything else I guess.

> Kinda says more about them than anything else I guess.

Shit that's deep I'ma have to think on this one.