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My Experience at Apple

ex-apple-engineer.medium.com

121–130 of 840 posts

Re: My Experience at Apple

#121
I am sorry to hear this.

I was a manager for 25 years, at a renowned corporation, that wasn’t fun, but didn’t have too much of this kind of thing.

When I became a manager, my personal vow was to “be the manager I always wanted.”

Contrary to popular mythology, this was not “Become a doormat.” As anyone that worked for me can tell you, I could be quite firm.

But that was the exception; not the rule.

Kindness and empathy pay huge dividends, as a manager —as long as they are “for real.” In my experience, artificial empathy gets detected quite quickly, by the types of folks we manage (smart ones).

But this should not be considered just an “Apple” problem. It happens everywhere, and, unlike in the movies, where the villain always gets their comeuppance, the perpetrators often thrive, establishing ugly corporate environments.

Sadly, their bosses are often quite aware of how bad they are, but they “get results,” and results are the bottom line.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re fired without good reason or paper trail and live in California take your employer to court. They still need good cause for termination.

Welcome to Bad Legal Advice News.

If you think letting employers bend you over without good reason is the way to live your life then go for it.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This person was not a US citizen, and needed to remain on the only path to a green card. Your options feel more limiting when that happens. They clearly didn't want to rattle the cage.

Attorneys will happily take your money and fight for you. Use what options you have.

This is easy to say but very difficult to actually do. Immigrants are typically more desperate and companies take advantage of that.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#124
new throwaway

I think what this person missed was that the iBuddy was their real manager all along. And once it became clear that the person would not cooperate with the iBuddy, they became the "problem employee" and were railroaded out.

Not justifying the abuse. They should have explained more clearly what was happening or transferred. It's also always more difficult when there are cultural and language barriers; they needed to take a more generous approach and explain things. And instead, they seem to have decided in the first couple days that they weren't going to give this person any slack.

I was hired in similar circumstances. I replaced someone who was fired. I had an "informal" manager, who ghostwrote my reviews and did everything my real manager would. Eventually my real manager was fired and the iBuddy became a manager of a new politically favored team.

It also looks like this person was hired on directly to a secret project. That's a really rough way to start at Apple. That may explain why they didn't give any slack and why they were really cagey with giving them access to project resources. It also sounds like the project was not going well, which also removes room for error.

They must have gotten a bad first impression and that spiraled into a negative feedback loop, since no-one was helping this person into the culture or explain what they were doing wrong. For example, when the real manager got back from vacation, they probably heard bad things from the iBuddy about this person's first couple days. And rather than trying to course correct, the real manager solidified the idea that this person is dangerous to the project and may cause problems for them. Again, this person was being turned into the "troublemaker employee" unnecessarily.

I can also corroborate the clique-iness. Retention is better at Apple than other companies (ie. people work there longer on average than other companies). And my experience is that combined with the secret projects and avoiding the bureaucracy is that you learn who will cooperate to get things done and who wont. And it is critical to your success to only work with people who cooperate and to avoid or even sabotage people who won't.

There were some other faux-pas here and there that definitely didn't help things. The author seems to have reached out to people without consulting the iBuddy or their manager. That's a huge no-no and again explains why they were on the shitlist. Also, they refused to hand over data citing GDPR. That was another bad call. The author was right to bring up GDPR and explain that they were in violation. But they should not have refused to give up the data. They may be correct on the merits, but it's a death sentence to them personally. Once management decides, you shouldn't be surprised if your reviews / employement is impacted for resisting, even if you are morally right.

So again, not excusing the abuse. What happened to the author was terrible and unnecessary. Some Apple specific stuff contributed to it: the high stakes secrecy, clique-iness, and informal power structures. But it sounds like this person also was not familiar with corporate politics and made a lot of faux-pas. With better management, they could have been taught how to navigate Apple's culture.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#125
post #5

It’s a long, rambling post with some fairly vague and difficult to falsify accusations. I have no connections to Apple (other than as a consumer), but I could not wade through the article enough to determine if I thought there was an actual smoking gun. I suspect the story would be much more powerful if it were 1/5 as long and stuck to the material facts.

The author is trying to maintain some anonymity. That would not be possible with specific details.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#126
I worked at Apple decades ago before Next and the return of Steve. It was glorious, fun, respectful, creative and bubbling with energy. Of course, it was nothing like the juggernaut of today. It was an upstart democracy, messy and sublime; now it's China: authoritarian and no patience for dissent.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#127
I want someone to train an AI with organizational psychology metrics, to better spot dysfunction and pathology.

Surely anyone looking at OP's team from afar could spot the dumpster fire, if only the data were available.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#128
post #17

Honestly why do people think that cannot happen at Apple ? That kind of thing can happen in any company. Apple is thousands of employees, it only requires a few bad people to create a situation like that. I'm not sure though, creating a post like that is the best thing. I don't know what exists in the US, but in France, you can sue your employer for free (You don't even need a lawyer), and if you are able to show a f…

From this and a few other random posts I've seen on Blind and Hacker News, the closed/secretive nature of Apple seems to allow it to happen more frequently than at other companies.

I have worked in several highly secretive companies, including this one, and this is correct. Secrecy enables abuse.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#129

For anyone experiencing workplace harassment, this article is a great example of what not to do. Instead, document everything happening to you with evidence, speak with HR about incidents as they arise, and if they don't take action, seek legal counsel. Doing anything else will paint you in a bad light.

According to the article, the person was documenting things. They even included a picture of a meeting invite. They also went to HR many times.

Only thing they didn't do was seek legal council, but that's probably a hard step to take when you're on a work visa - especially when Apple is your legal opponent.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#130
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some extra tidbits that didn't make it in because the edit timer ran out: - Despite the big release and herculean efforts, both of us were paid a fraction of our target bonus. This was the day I decided to move jobs. - I eventually grew some balls and told Apple to (a) pay me 2.5x during overtime (b) hire SREs for this critical service, or (c) go fuck themselves. They chose (c), which worked alright because our servi…

I got an offer from Apple. The hiring manager told me "You worked at a startup before, you'll have no problem working overtime". I didn't end up taking the offer.

You should have just said no sir I wont have any problem working overtime and my rate is 2.5x for overtime hrs, you wont have a problem paying for that you're a rich company.
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