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UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

rte.ie

121–130 of 251 posts

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#121

Little to celebrate here. The main outcome is that it’s now going to be much more of a pain in the arse to perform lots of basic functions that we took for granted. There is now a bunch more red tape involved involved in buying or selling goods or services to other European counties. It’s harder and more expensive to move for work or education, both to and from the UK. The UK now has a customs border inside it’s own…

Wouldn't it be better to replace the EU with an expansive multilateral free trade treaty that encompasses the same states? Why do we need an additional layer of government?

Hard to answer that without defining what “better” means. It’s not clear what difference you would imagine between “an expansive multilateral free trade treaty” and the EU as it stands.

The European single market is essentially the largest international free trade agreement, going far further and deeper than any other by eliminating as many barriers to both trade and individual freedom between states. In order to support that and provide a level playing field, there needs to be common set of rules on things like regulation, worker’s rights, state funding of industry and so on. And in order to administer those, you need a level of bureaucracy. Quite quickly, you’ll find you’ve recreated the EU.

It’s totally reasonable to argue for the EU to take a particular direction - like closer integration, or more distant cooperation, or less bureaucracy or whatever. But the arguments in the Brexit case in particular often seem to fall apart on interrogation of the details.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#122
post #9

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Fair to call EU big, global and bureaucratic. But with 24 working languages, 27 represented states and 8 official political parties isn't it pretty much the opposite of homogeneous?

Depends how you look at it. The European Parliament is ethnically pretty homogeneous, for example.

The figures are hard to come by because the EU don't record ethnicity AFAIK, but in 2017 there were approximately 17 non-white MEPs out of a total 751. I think 8 of those were from the UK. Given the amount of times I've been called racist for voting to leave the EU, I always find that figure quite hilarious.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#123
post #103
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I think the UK got a fantastic deal in the end. (I'm Swedish.)

Not as good as we had before. It’s the only trade deal negotiated with the explicitly stated intention of having fewer benefits than before.

You got access to the EU's internal market without tariffs (except for financial services). The EU key people stated for a very long time - access to the internal EU market cannot be decoupled from the free movement of people. But still, you won that. All because you gave access to french fishers to some fishing waters. I think this bribe to one of the EU partners has been the key impetus for a lot of renewed EU resistance in Sweden. As an example:

After reading the terms of the deal, lots of Swedes in r/svenskpolitik ("swedish politics") actually wanted the same exit deal. I kind of agree.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#124
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the ex-colonies want nothing to do with the UK. We can smell the fear and desperation. There is nothing in it for us. We aren't going to bail out the UK or take the influx of economic refugees.

> Except the ex-colonies want nothing to do with the UK. But they all signed trade agreements with the UK? So this is clearly not true.

[deleted]

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#125
post #102
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visit UK often because of family ties. The most frequent answer I get when I ask people why they voted to leave is that foreigners come over and take their jobs and put a strain on NHS, vaguely referencing the influx of Polish immigrants they got when Poland entered the EU. So maybe not racists, but xenophobes for sure.

Does wanting one’s own country to focus on its citizens first make one a xenophobe?

Short answer yes.

EDIT longer answer:

You live in a society of people, the people that you interact with daily are people just like you. Some of them might be immigrants and some of them might have a foreign citizenship. That does not make them any lesser. They pay taxes to the same government as you, they abide by the same rules as you. If they brake the law, they have to answer for it just like you. The only reason I can think of why they shouldn’t accept the same benefits from your government as you is xenophobia.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#126
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except the ex-colonies want nothing to do with the UK. But they all signed trade agreements with the UK? So this is clearly not true.

Everyone wants trade with everyone to their benefit. We also want to be friends and play cricket. But there is no discussion of the other things related to CANZUK in Australia and NZ. We don't want open borders with the UK or to roll back the clock to the empire. Almost everything to do with CANZUK is a fantasy used to deflect from the very real problems associated with leaving the EU.

> Everyone wants trade with everyone to their benefit. We also want to be friends and play cricket.

Wait wait wait a second ago you said they 'want nothing to do with the UK', now you're saying they want to trade, and play sports? Clearly not 'nothing to do' is it?

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#127
post #87
post #38

Time to emigrate from the U.K. to a more enlightened country. What countries would you go to as an English expat for a better life? Where can you change a useless English citizenship for another?

Wouldn't Ireland be your best bet? It's close, English-speaking, culturally similar and some UK citizens are eligible for Irish citizens to boot.

> culturally similar

YMMV

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#128
post #15

Yay. Now we're free. Oh wait, no, it's just that absolutely everything got harder, more expensive, more nationalistic, more pathetic and sad. It's all incredibly depressing. Here's hoping our kids manage to vote us back in as soon as those Tory f's are out.

- Tory f's are out

Is that language really necessary? Such divisive language doesn't help the debate at all. As mentioned below, it's also totally incorrect. Labour heartlands voted massively for leave. Labour and Tories went into the election saying they would honour the referendum vote. Tories cleaned up an 80 seat majority in December 2019 winning many Labour seats campaigning on the goal to get Brexit done.

Brexit has happened. I voted remain but I've moved on. Harbouring such negativity and pessimism isn't healthy.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#129
post #38

Time to emigrate from the U.K. to a more enlightened country. What countries would you go to as an English expat for a better life? Where can you change a useless English citizenship for another?

One of you lot recently married an American and moved to Canada. Queen's a bit salty, but they seem to be doing well for themselves. But seriously, I'm an American living in Canada, planning on getting citizenship here. The British immigrants I've met seem to get along pretty well here.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#130
post #38

Time to emigrate from the U.K. to a more enlightened country. What countries would you go to as an English expat for a better life? Where can you change a useless English citizenship for another?

Seconding Ireland. Also, out of habit I recommend The Netherlands + Scandinavia. Wealthy, competently run places. New Zealand is great, but 30 hours of travel to visit family is not super great.
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