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Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

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Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chomsky denied the Cambodian Holocaust while it was occurring and has never apologized or really publicly reckoned with this. He also keeps his fortune in tax shelters while inveighing against others who do the same. I would thus take his comments about the manifold evils of business with a wee grain of salt; the regimes he has unapologetically flacked for have killed many more people than Google has.

>He also keeps his fortune in tax shelters His "fortune"? You know he's a college professor right?

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/issuesideas/story.ht...

But trusts can't be all bad. After all, Chomsky, with a net worth north of US$2-million, decided to create one for himself. A few years back he went to Boston's venerable white-shoe law firm, Palmer and Dodge, and, with the help of a tax attorney specializing in "income-tax planning," set up an irrevocable trust to protect his assets from Uncle Sam. He named his tax attorney (every socialist radical needs one!) and a daughter as trustees. To the Diane Chomsky Irrevocable Trust (named for another daughter) he has assigned the copyright of several of his books, including multiple international editions.

Chomsky favours massive income redistribution -- just not the redistribution of his income. No reason to let radical politics get in the way of sound estate planning.

When I challenged Chomsky about his trust, he suddenly started to sound very bourgeois: "I don't apologize for putting aside money for my children and grandchildren," he wrote in one e-mail. Chomsky offered no explanation for why he condemns others who are equally proud of their provision for their children and who try to protect their assets from Uncle Sam. (However, Chomsky did say that his tax shelter is OK because he and his family are "trying to help suffering people.")

Indeed, Chomsky is rich precisely because he has been such an enormously successful capitalist. Despite his anti-profit rhetoric, like any other corporate capitalist Chomsky has turned himself into a brand name. As John Lloyd recently put it in the lefty New Statesman, Chomsky is among those "open to being "commodified" -- that is, to being simply one of the many wares of a capitalist media market place, in a way that the badly paid and overworked writers and journalists for the revolutionary parties could rarely be."

Chomsky's business works something like this. He gives speeches on college campuses around the country at US$12,000 a pop, often dozens of times a year.

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#122
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10% growth every year for a quarter of a century? I regard that as very impressive. They are catching up to status quo. Mostly because they squandered the previous decades scientifically hunting down sparrows and enemies of the state.

Which is so different from the War on Terror and the Patriot Act.

As misguided as the Patriot Act is, it pales in comparison to the Great Cultural Revolution and other acts of horror insanity that devastated China after World War II.

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#123
The article dances around the main reason the PISA scores don't say much about innovation, but doesn't say it: For innovation it's the top 5-10% that counts not the average.

I wouldn't be surprised if a study that compared the best 5% of students worldwide showed the US in a very different place, much higher in the rankings.

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a country is a bit backwards, with the right set of leadership, they can very quickly modernize, becoming extremely important economically and geopolitically in ~30 years when starting almost from scratch. It's not only leadership. If there is a long track record of commerce and admiration of scholarship, a culture can enable rapid modernization. I think this is why Japan, Korea, and China have done very well for…

Cultural antecedents are not a necessary pre-condition for modernisation. The USSR modernised very rapidly and it started off with mass illiteracy.

The USSR modernised very rapidly and it started off with mass illiteracy.

Yes, but look at them now. The territories of the former USSR do not constitute the best climate for business. Cultural antecedents are not a necessary pre-condition, but they seem to help.

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but the trend in the US is towards more repression, while the trend in China is towards less . We are destroying our middle class, they are creating and growing theirs at an incredible rate. The attitude that I get from a lot of Chinese is that they feel the present government is a necessary evil - i.e., in exchange for many political and religious freedoms, they get progress, and an immense improvement…

We've all got different friends, but I'd offer a different perspective. Most Chinese I know dislike their government, but are apathetic towards it, or too busy trying to live their own lives. And China is recently tending towards more sophisticated repression, rather than less of it in general. Perhaps the US and China will end up in the same place!

"A sufficiently sophisticated repression is indistinguishable from democracy?"

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He also keeps his fortune in tax shelters His "fortune"? You know he's a college professor right?

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/issuesideas/story.ht... But trusts can't be all bad. After all, Chomsky, with a net worth north of US$2-million, decided to create one for himself. A few years back he went to Boston's venerable white-shoe law firm, Palmer and Dodge, and, with the help of a tax attorney specializing in "income-tax planning," set up an irrevocable trust to protect his assets from Uncle Sam. He n…

This is more of typical "find some way to make everyone who takes any action into a hypocrite". First of all, just because Chomsky believes something doesn't mean he has to practice it if no one else is. What would it benefit the world for him to be poor?

I have some strong Anarchistic beliefs (i.e. the immorality of one man ruling another, not the smash-things-up kind) but I do literally nothing (outside of talking) for it because it's not practical. I could only ruin my own quality of life and who would see that kind of example and say "wow, count me in!". I'm in a capitalist system so I may as well learn it and use it to the best of my abilities. It's almost certain to be the only system I ever live under no matter what actions I take.

Likewise, very few people listen to Chomsky so he may as well use the system he will live his whole life in to the best of his ability.

And finally, the messenger is different than the message. It is perfectly valid for a smoker to preach about the evils of smoking. He can even call people who smoke stupid. Him smoking doesn't make his message invalid.

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cultural antecedents are not a necessary pre-condition for modernisation. The USSR modernised very rapidly and it started off with mass illiteracy.

The USSR modernised very rapidly and it started off with mass illiteracy. Yes, but look at them now. The territories of the former USSR do not constitute the best climate for business. Cultural antecedents are not a necessary pre-condition, but they seem to help.

Fair enough.

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/issuesideas/story.ht... But trusts can't be all bad. After all, Chomsky, with a net worth north of US$2-million, decided to create one for himself. A few years back he went to Boston's venerable white-shoe law firm, Palmer and Dodge, and, with the help of a tax attorney specializing in "income-tax planning," set up an irrevocable trust to protect his assets from Uncle Sam. He n…

This is more of typical "find some way to make everyone who takes any action into a hypocrite". First of all, just because Chomsky believes something doesn't mean he has to practice it if no one else is. What would it benefit the world for him to be poor? I have some strong Anarchistic beliefs (i.e. the immorality of one man ruling another, not the smash-things-up kind) but I do literally nothing (outside of talking)…

Look, I'm not saying you're a bad guy or that working within the system for change is illegitimate.

My point is this: smoking while convincing others that smoking is bad makes you worse off but others better off. That's a failure of will.

But piling up millions in a trust while arguing that other rich people should be punitively taxed makes Chomsky better off but others worse off. That's hypocrisy.

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is so different from the War on Terror and the Patriot Act.

The War on Terror, foolish and wrong-headed though it has been, can't be placed on the same footing of destructiveness as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. Not by several orders of magnitude. And you have to come through Stalinism and the Holocaust en route to making that comparison, so let's keep things in perspective here.

I guess I was responding to "hunting down sparrows and enemies of the state" rather than the revolution specifically, so I will accept they are in a different league.

Still, I'm not sure killing around 3% of Iraqis is something that can be dismissed as "foolish and wrong-headed" either.

Re: Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

#130

But, but, but... they're not democratic! If only they'd put more power in the hands of the common man, they too could enjoy such luminous choices for statesmen as McCain vs. Obama, Bush II vs. Kerry, Bush II vs Gore, Dole vs. Clinton, Bush I vs. Clinton... ...we gotta keep saber rattling that our way is better than theirs. Boo China, boo. Edit: To the downvoter - okay, I'm joking around. But which of these premises d…

I think you also should add to the list that given a choice, people will chose leaders who they are able to like the most.

This means that if China's existing leadership is heavily engineering based, the power structures will form in such way that aspiring politicos study engineering.

After all, we are all having this debate because we, being engineers, want to see more engineers in high office.

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