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The Internet Is for Porn

themargins.substack.com

121–130 of 460 posts

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#121

> [About SV] An observer might note that all of these companies are dominated by men, in an industry dominated by men, tightly interwoven with a venture capital industry that is super-dominated by men. So it’s curious why none of these men have shown any interest in addressing the massive and lucrative sex work industry that overwhelmingly serves, well, men; until you consider who pays the real costs of that industry…

I think that the argument is that male tech workers consume porn as much as other men and therefore solving issues of porn industry could be solving issues they have too. E.g. selfishness of tech males should lead them to care about porn.

Your contra argument implicitly assumes that tech makes are special kind of males that don't use porn.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can sell our bodies to be destroyed in coal mines, sitting at desks, smash them up building homes, abusing them in sports, catch a Covid-19 bug... Puritan economics seem perfectly accepting of destroying ourselves. Willingly sell self for pleasure though? Psh Only if the pleasure comes from that new gadget or next airfare (which is destroying the environment but so it is)

> Willingly sell self for pleasure though? Psh Having been in a sector of fintech that many sex workers used, I can say with confidence that the majority of the women within were single moms who simply couldn't or didn't have access to the social net to feed their children and aren't doing it because they want to. It was entirely eye-opening to see how sad it is when you're talking with a young women trying to sell t…

> Whereas in Europe and Asia nudity is completely accepted in many public areas, and sex work is tolerated, legal and is just another, albeit uncommon, thing people do for a living and nothing more

This is way overemphasized on the Internet by people who don't have much experience with living in Europe. It's similar to Europeans imagining that in the US it's an everyday thing that people are dying left and right because they can't pay for an emergency ambulance to take them to the hospital.

Nudity may be less stigmatized than in America, but prostitution is not something normal people as just another job that they'd be happy if their daughter chose it. On the surface, people may seem more tolerant of it, but privately they definitely act differently.

Why do we see so few Dutch and Swedish and Danish emancipated free empowered women self-actualize through porn work? Why is it always poorer Eastern European Czech, Polish, Hungarian, Ukrainian, Russian women at the top of porn star lists?

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#123

"Everything in life is about sex, except sex. Sex is about power." I think the debate is not really about porn, but people's sense of justice, cheating, deserving things or not etc. Some feel like porn gives unearned satisfaction to young men, a virtual substitute they don't have to work for. The bitter other side will say, no shit, I won't slave away to get screwed over, it's much more straightforward business to co…

Are there "puritans" as such anymore?

I think the theological morality case is more like treating sexual addiction, like porn addiction, like a sickness that needs support and treatment, at least more than it is now.

The Christian perspective is that on a moral level, watching porn is in the same category as adultery and whatever sexual immorality that is depicted in the pornography. That's because moral culpability is in the heart to start with.

Folks don't sign up for the same worldview, sure. And it's a nonsense (perhaps harmful) worldview if you reject Christian teaching altogether. But there's a lot more subtlety, realism, and (from their perspective) care for people than is captured by concerns about cheating and symbolism.

More concretely, there is a lot of excitement to see progress on modern slavery and human trafficking in many Christian circles. The intersection between pornography, sex work, and sexual slavery is especially concerning in those circles.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#124
post #47
post #14

For those looking to escape porn: https://nofap.com/

Someone has seriously made a business out of nerds talking about their penises? That's amazing.

Someone made a business helping people escape their porn addiction. It's no different than helping heroin addicts by "talking about their needles." You can't just deconstruct everything.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#125
I dont think its fair to say that Social media sites banning the sex industry is a move that stems from hostility. Its just our culture that we separate sex and normal life. Maybe for children, maybe for ourselves. I dont want my timeline on fb to fill up with ads for porn creators. When i do want to consume porn i know where to go.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Willingly sell self for pleasure though? Psh Having been in a sector of fintech that many sex workers used, I can say with confidence that the majority of the women within were single moms who simply couldn't or didn't have access to the social net to feed their children and aren't doing it because they want to. It was entirely eye-opening to see how sad it is when you're talking with a young women trying to sell t…

People are hardly working for Google because they want to. People are hardly working in slaughter houses and coal mines because they want to. Feminists I know are selling themselves because they like sex, and controlling their bodies time economy is their choice. One would think on this forum that it’s a gradient of statistics and not black and white anecdotes would be more obvious. Exploitation of minors is one thin…

> Feminists I know are selling themselves because they like sex, and controlling their bodies time economy is their choice.

Not to dwell on this so much, as my observations of sex workers were those who did it for need rather then pleasure, but what part of 'selling yourself' is empowering?

I mean if you like something, like a hobby, you usually don't seek to monetize it if you want keep enjoying it. It seems to cheapen the activity as you start applying different metric than sheer joy as the only goal, and instead look an things through an PNL lens.

In fact introducing these metrics is almost always a net negative activity--now in my 30s I've turned almost all of my hobbies, skills and interests into a professional career to the detriment of my pleasure towards it and suffered because I bought into the fake adage of 'never having to work a day' for most of my Life.

Whereas it's now become the new normal to view 'feminism' as a preferential distortion of facts and realities in favour of biased outcomes that don't hold up to any scrutiny.

I have no problem with sex workers, I've treated them all with the same respect I would with customers in the professional or corporate sectors I've been in and they always remarked how differently I was because of that.

But, the truth is I hold almost near disdain for social media 'thots' (male or female) who exploit mentally weak and vulnerable people into giving them money in exchange of attention/sexual exploitation and exploiting Human vulnerability and a need for connection. I think the same applies to these 'feminists' prostitutes and their false narrative because of the obvious level of hypocrisy behind it and its motives is one of obvious extractive relationships with people based on self-interest, vulgar opportunism and having the social inertia to carry on forcing people to buy into that view.

> Exploitation of minors is one thing. Though, I do not see many folks lifting a finger over child political prisoners in rancid cages. So I’m left wondering if exploitation is the real issue or the sex part given cultural norms.

The Catholic Church still exists, start with questioning why that den of pedophilia is institutionalized in modern Society despite the countless amounts of child rape and exempt from taxation before you go any further. Then you'll see why things like the Epstein-Maxwell sex trafficking of minors is more common than one would care to think. Which again ties to the what I said above about exploitation of vulnerable people.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#127
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are selling pictures of their body. The body gets nearly no wear and tear for the work. There's only negative presence in the sense of haters. Would you also encourage young people to avoid being Black, or Muslim, because that's a "negative presence"?

I would discourage young people from getting face tattoos. I think that's a better analogy.

Facial tattoos are a traditional practice for many ethnic groups. Many modern practitioners feel that they're reclaiming a practice that was persecuted under American Puritanism.

It's not that there can't be reasonable appearance standards; however, it would be incredibly disingenuous to claim that those standards are established within a neutral cultural atmosphere. I personally find white dudes with short or no hair (the skinhead/cop cut) threatening, but no one's ever going to make that disqualifying.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#128

> [About SV] An observer might note that all of these companies are dominated by men, in an industry dominated by men, tightly interwoven with a venture capital industry that is super-dominated by men. So it’s curious why none of these men have shown any interest in addressing the massive and lucrative sex work industry that overwhelmingly serves, well, men; until you consider who pays the real costs of that industry…

Men are expected to sell their bodies in manual labor. Women are not. Seems a double standard.

One type of work is called "the oldest profession". Not sure how that is consolidated with a double standard view.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#129
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those same mothers would likely be very glad if their daughter got a man with a well paying job, lots of money, and a big house. They think more in terms of their generation, how women's access to status worked back when they were young. Onlyfans opens a different way for attractive women to attain wealth. Much safer, and with way less pain involved than going through a marriage that was done for the money instead of…

Or, you know, they could go get a real job. I heard lots of women are doing that these days and they're being pretty successful. I'm sure those same mothers would be equally glad if they got a proper high-paying job.

Feels like the definition of a No True Scotsman fallacy.

Maybe they should drive an Uber instead? No, that's not a real job, just a side gig. How about working at a drive-thru? Nope, that's supposed to a temporary stop for high schoolers. How about [...] (equally dismissive judgement).

These are adult humans putting out content and getting paid for it. That makes it a real job.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#130

"Everything in life is about sex, except sex. Sex is about power." I think the debate is not really about porn, but people's sense of justice, cheating, deserving things or not etc. Some feel like porn gives unearned satisfaction to young men, a virtual substitute they don't have to work for. The bitter other side will say, no shit, I won't slave away to get screwed over, it's much more straightforward business to co…

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