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M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

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Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#121
post #120
post #100

I've never owned a Mac and don't intend to own one but I'm very happy with this M1 move, mainly for the reasons highlighted in the introduction to the article: >M1 Macs embarrass all other PCs — all Intel-based Macs, including automobile-priced Mac Pros, and every single machine running Windows or Linux. Those machines are just standing around in their underwear now because the M1 stole all their pants. I think it's…

> I want to believe. If we can end up with superfast, supercool ARM-based Linux laptops, that'd be a huge deal :)

Let's not forget the super long battery.

While I dislike apple and have never owned any of their devices I can't help but feel thankful to them because now that we know this is possible soon others will re-create their success and we will hopefully have the same perks on a more open platform

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#122
post #41

I don't understand the comparison to the iphone and android situation. As far as I can see, android phones are highly competitive with iphone on everything. The longest battery isn't on an iphone, the best camera isn't on an iphone, the latest screen tech isn't on an iphone, etc. etc. Coming to the M1 laptops, they beat comparable Windows laptops in every single metric. It's literally just a matter of looking at the…

> I don't understand the comparison to the iphone and android situation. Because articles like that are pure nonsense. Take the initial paragraphs. We already knew that faster processors don't necessarily run hotter. People are simply conflating higher clock speeds with higher performance, while ignoring all of the ways CPU design optimizes computation. Likewise, we already knew that "emulation" doesn't imply that pe…

Likewise, we already knew that "emulation" doesn't imply that performance will be unbearably slow.

Apple’s Rosetta 2 doesn't do emulation; it translates the x86 code into ARM code on the fly and runs it, which is why most apps run faster on M1 Macs than they do on Intel Macs--and comparably priced PCs.

Now that it has happened, we will likely see more from the PC industry.

Probably not. If Intel and AMD were capable of this kind of performance per watt, they’d already be doing it. Years ago.

Because the latest x86 chip has to be backwards compatible with 40 years of legacy code, there are certain limitations Intel and AMD just have to live with.

Apple will likely have a hard time keeping up unless they have more up their sleeve.

It's ironic that it's Apple that will have a hard time keeping up when they've already disrupted Intel and AMD. Remember, it's not just a processor; it's a system on a chip that contains an 8-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine for machine learning tasks and other components.

This has obviously been in the works for several years; Apple wouldn't have gone down this path if they didn't believe it would give them a sustainable competitive advantage for years to come.

Even with its ridiculous performance, the M1 is the entry-level consumer version of the M series suitable for (in Apple's lineup) entry-level consumer hardware. The M1-based MacBook Air doesn't have a fan and it's faster and more capable now than many (most?) PCs that cost more and run hotter.

One thing we know: the M2 will be faster and more capable than the M1 and won't be limited to 16 Gb. We'll probably see M2-based Macs by the summer of 2021.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#123
post #119
post #100

I've never owned a Mac and don't intend to own one but I'm very happy with this M1 move, mainly for the reasons highlighted in the introduction to the article: >M1 Macs embarrass all other PCs — all Intel-based Macs, including automobile-priced Mac Pros, and every single machine running Windows or Linux. Those machines are just standing around in their underwear now because the M1 stole all their pants. I think it's…

>Those machines are just standing around in their underwear now because the M1 stole all their pants. Not sure what shitty machine hes talking about, but my threadripper's are not impressed with some 4 core M1.

This is not a completely fair comparison, your threadrippers surely use more energy and produce more heat than the M1 chip.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#124
post #24

> because iPhones and iPads run fast and cool For certain values of "cool", for certain tasks.

Well, where "hot" means "needs a fan". iPhones and iPads sure can run quite warm when charging and doing intensive things on them.

A vast understatement, IMO. I've gotten my iPad pro hot enough you couldn't hold it in your hands (well, I couldn't) while running graphics intensive hardware.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#125

I wish Gruber would just let modest criticisms like this stuff fly rather than pen an overwrought argument like this. I think it’s perfectly legitimate to raise concerns around Apple software because it’s one area where Apple has faced sustained criticism from its users and has done very little to remedy the situation. So if the software that runs on top of the M1 is shakey, it’s entirely realistic to expect these “w…

Eh, I get his coming down on criticisms this time. It doesn't make sense to criticize the hardware for software issues. I'm not going copy a binary compiled for x86 over to a RPi and complain about ARM chips being inadequate.

If there are software issues, address them as such.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#126
post #119
post #100

I've never owned a Mac and don't intend to own one but I'm very happy with this M1 move, mainly for the reasons highlighted in the introduction to the article: >M1 Macs embarrass all other PCs — all Intel-based Macs, including automobile-priced Mac Pros, and every single machine running Windows or Linux. Those machines are just standing around in their underwear now because the M1 stole all their pants. I think it's…

>Those machines are just standing around in their underwear now because the M1 stole all their pants. Not sure what shitty machine hes talking about, but my threadripper's are not impressed with some 4 core M1.

Wait for an 8-core (or the rumored 12 core) variants. Those will embarrass your threadripper.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#127
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Those machines are just standing around in their underwear now because the M1 stole all their pants. Not sure what shitty machine hes talking about, but my threadripper's are not impressed with some 4 core M1.

This is not a completely fair comparison, your threadrippers surely use more energy and produce more heat than the M1 chip.

Sometimes it matters other times not. If you want absolute performance then it doesn't matter, if you want efficiency then it does.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#128

I feel like the M1 hype is getting out of hand. Apple bought up TSMC’s entire 5nm manufacturing capacity so of course it’s going to pack more transistors and use less power than AMD’s 7nm TSMC process or Intel’s 10nm process (which is effectively similar to 7nm TSMC). The M1 is a great and well-refined design but when compared to AMD’s similarly priced 4750U in multi core benchmarks, the performance per watt is bette…

> Apple bought up TSMC’s entire 5nm manufacturing capacity

... until the end of 2020.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has a version of windows running on arm in the surface pro. Wouldn't that give them the headstart on apple?

Apple had versions of iOS running ARM on phones and pads since how many years? They used their head start already to launch themselves into their ARM computers.

And it's not particularly relevant, but the Newton was an ARM device, so Apple's head start is even longer than that.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#130
post #119
post #100

I've never owned a Mac and don't intend to own one but I'm very happy with this M1 move, mainly for the reasons highlighted in the introduction to the article: >M1 Macs embarrass all other PCs — all Intel-based Macs, including automobile-priced Mac Pros, and every single machine running Windows or Linux. Those machines are just standing around in their underwear now because the M1 stole all their pants. I think it's…

>Those machines are just standing around in their underwear now because the M1 stole all their pants. Not sure what shitty machine hes talking about, but my threadripper's are not impressed with some 4 core M1.

He's talking about the vast majority of PC chips sold today, who's power consumption / performance / thermal ratios just got marmalised.

You're quite right, your machine and in fact everyone else's are still just as good as they were a few weeks ago. I got an Intel 5K iMac in the summer and I'm still very happy with it. I need to be able to run windows and Linux in VMs so M1 isn't for me right now. It's no for you either.

Having said that, your manufacturer of your Threadripper is now on notice. Apple isn't done with the M1, more powerful desktop chips are on their way over the next few years and there's a very good chance they'll do exactly what they just did to Intel and AMDs mobile chipsets to the high end stuff. Apple are coming for them, and not being impressed now isn't going to serve them well down the line.

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