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Hire people who give a shit

alexw.substack.com

121–130 of 342 posts

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#121
This article is megalomaniacal. Insisting that your company with 200+ employees will only hire people who will work themselves to the bone without any mention of how those people will be properly compensated is wild corporate propaganda.

I honestly don’t know why the tech industry continues to capitulate to leaders like this who obviously, and loudly, mistreat and dehumanize their employees by insisting that if you are not obsessed and willing to put in incredible energy into someone else’s project that you are bad. It does not follow that people should be obsessed with someone else’s business that they won’t be properly compensated for. No matter how many times someone rich says it, it will never be true.

I will say, however, that this is an extremely popular position with the rich and powerful. From startups to big consulting firms, there was not a single company in SF that I worked for that did not echo this. From PC saying how proud he was that we did not hire more engineers at Stripe while people were pulling 60+ hour weeks for months at a time, to engineering managers explaining how they slept under their desk while they were working at Facebook, to Big 3 consulting firm partners exhorting 22 year olds to work 80 hour weeks being screamed at by misogynistic clients in cities across the globe, the song remained the same.

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#123
I think of the devs I've worked with that can't seem to manage a kanban board themselves or speak up and ask cross-cutting big picture questions.

If I know my senior dev doesn't give a shit, then I need to establish a manager/lead who does give a shit. If I have someone who does give a shit, then I have to spend less managing their shit.

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#124

Lol. You can’t work only five hours a day _and_ still “give a shit”, according to the article. Sounds like someone full of himself. I’m never going to work more than 8 hours a day for a company, preferably less even. I still get more stuff done in those hours that I do work. I care a lot about what I do, but I’m not going to destroy myself or my life for someone else’s company. Already did that for the military, neve…

Scale AI is an embarrassment to YC in general, as the founders embody every negative trope we’ve come to associate with the worst of the scene. The Youtuber Joma Tech has an excellent takedown on the sheer arrogance of their founder.

https://youtu.be/HTXTVfBCeSY

The fetishization of a youthful founder, the ridiculous interview questions, and as I personally made the mistake of doing a phone screen with them before learning some of this, the recruiter admitted that their compensation was “startup compensation” aka we want the smartest people who are dumb enough to work for half the money.

And the cherry on top of course is that the world changing product they are building is, wait for it, labeling data. It’s basically YCs version of Poes Law where it sound like satire but it’s actually real.

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#125

Lol. You can’t work only five hours a day _and_ still “give a shit”, according to the article. Sounds like someone full of himself. I’m never going to work more than 8 hours a day for a company, preferably less even. I still get more stuff done in those hours that I do work. I care a lot about what I do, but I’m not going to destroy myself or my life for someone else’s company. Already did that for the military, neve…

I was going to write the same thing. WTH is this guy thinking. I would never work for such a company.

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#126
post #116

The comments here at HN are quite harsh imho and I feel bad for possibly ruining someone's day. Is there a way for me to delete the submission? I posted it on HN as I liked the points in the article. The points in the post are reasonable provided there's fair equity for the employees (which I believe is disclosed prior to joining - I have no knowledge about dilution, preference etc). I also agree with the commenters…

>>> The points in the post are reasonable provided there's fair equity for the employees (which I believe is disclosed prior to joining - I have no knowledge about dilution, preference etc).

That's why you don't understand. Long story short, employee's equity is worthless because it will always be reduced to nothing by dilution/preference and even if the company grows a hundred fold.

There are only two people who benefit from a (very) successful company, the founder and the investor.

The first point of the article, that the founder expects employees to care about the company as much as him, is delusional. Folks here understand that because they've been burned before.

There's no reason for employees to care so much about a day job because they will get nothing beyond their regular salary. If anything they are risking quite a bit by working for a smaller company.

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#127
post #116

The comments here at HN are quite harsh imho and I feel bad for possibly ruining someone's day. Is there a way for me to delete the submission? I posted it on HN as I liked the points in the article. The points in the post are reasonable provided there's fair equity for the employees (which I believe is disclosed prior to joining - I have no knowledge about dilution, preference etc). I also agree with the commenters…

Personally, when I feel that a HN thread is too negative. Let them be. It's fine. In most cases, I don't think they feel bad. They simply express their opinion and are fine with expressing a negative one. You can especially tell when people reply to those people. While discussion may get polarized, it's still interesting to read on an intellectual level.

I think voicing your opinion and having food for thought is more valued on HN than most other communities I see. Whether that food is negative or positive, is simply another flavor.

While I voiced my disagreements with this article, I value the discussion (and to some extent the article). Whether I view an article as good or bad, in most cases I value the discussion much more than the article :P

I'm happy you submitted it :)

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#128
What do you do when the founder doesn't give a shit? I'm talking about leaving early every other day, ignoring his employees, lying to customers, forgetting about "decisions" that were made only days ago...

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#129
post #12

Yikes. I would never work for that person after reading that article. “I started a company and I’m totally wild about it. It is my life. If it is not your life too then you don’t belong here.” Founders are supposed to be obsessed with their company. (Though I question that too.) But demanding everyone else at the company be just as obsessed is doomed to hire children and sycophants and drive off professionals who hav…

The financial incentive structures are also pretty skewed. Upside for founders is much, much higher than employees. Proper incentives entice employee engagement.

The downside is also much bigger for founders. The board will cut the founder pay when times are tough, long before they touch rank-and-file employees, because they know you value your equity. The other folks can walk.

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#130

And the inverse: have a business which is worthy of shit-giving. It’s extremely hard to give a shit about Yet Another Middleware CRUD CRM Layer Corp. There’s a fine balancing point between working a bullshit job ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs ) and recognizing that no, the B-Ark ( https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Golgafrinchan_Ark_Fleet_... ) is a bad idea, we really do need telephone handset saniti…

> For another, it’s going to bias you towards treating, e.g., janitors as subhuman, and that way is the path to a very bad place.

Do you have any more thoughts about this point? In my own life I’ve seen some of my friends with hotshot jobs develop this sort of mentality, and I sort of don’t know what to make of it. I want to be like “this is a toxic attitude to have!” but at the same time I can’t make a better argument than it’s immoral and without janitors we’d all be dead.

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