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Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

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Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#121
> > Inspired by historical events and characters, this work of fiction was designed, developed, and produced by a multicultural team of various beliefs, sexual orientations and gender identities.

> This statement is making ... implicit [claims] (our diverse team means this game was produced in a careful, sensitive way)

For everyone who isn't aware of the history of this statement, it was a way for the game to include a scene of beating up the pope without (pardon the pun) getting crucified.

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#122
post #84

I think what people are missing is that this is a work of fiction. Any work of fiction is entitled to do whatever it wants really. So what if it white washes stuff for the masses, maybe thats a good thing. If people experience the past only as a fictional place where people are gentle and sensitive, if there is wide acknowledgment of race and gender, in the way that we actually want from our society today, isn’t that…

>I think what people are missing is that this is a work of fiction. Any work of fiction is entitled to do whatever it wants really.

I think you may want to qualify that statement a little bit. The author covers this point as well: "Imagine the equivalent of a game set in the American South or the Caribbean pre-1865 in which slavery was simply not present at all"

Would you have any issues with AC:Confederacy game, where slavery is not a thing? Where the North is seen as evil, while South is seen as kind, gentle and chivalrous? That's the scale of what AC:Valhalla did to their portrayal of invading Vikings vs the Anglo-Saxon populations.

>Whenever I played Civilization as a kid and had “Mongolians build the pyramids” I never thought thats a historical fact

Did you read the article? The author points out a few historical inaccuracies (like the lack of mail armor being worn) but also mentions that those are not a big deal because he understands that this isn't a historical simulation. That's not a problem with the game, although it is nice and appreciated when the artist takes care to cover even the small details.

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#123
post #107
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a werewolf invasion of the Tokugawa shogunate would need to include Latinx genderfuild bipocs or be racist? Literally no one is saying that. I guess I'm racist then. If that makes you happy.

>Literally no one is saying that. You literally were: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy

Not at all. My point isn't that you must include diverse characters, but that you cannot say "I really wanted to included more diverse characters in my werewolf samurai game, but couldn't because of historical accuracy". You should be honest and say something like "I didn't add South American warriors to my samurai werewolf game because it honestly never crossed my mind to do so, and even if it had I wouldn't do it because it goes against the feel and aesthetic I was going for."

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#124

> > Inspired by historical events and characters, this work of fiction was designed, developed, and produced by a multicultural team of various beliefs, sexual orientations and gender identities. > This statement is making ... implicit [claims] (our diverse team means this game was produced in a careful, sensitive way) Ah, I think that's a misunderstanding of why the statement is there. It's not to claim that the gam…

Considering the anti-christian tone of the game I think they were completely missing Christians. (I haven't played the game, so I'm taking the article's word on how it portrays Christians as fact, which might or might not be true) You cannot claim diversity if you are missing a faction - even if the faction is one you consider against your beliefs.

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#125
post #70

> I think the problem can be neatly summed up in just one thing about the game: the game will ‘desyncronize’ you (meaning produce a game over) if your character kills civilians While I agree this broke immersion completely for me, I don't think you want 10 year olds killing civilians.

Do you think many 10 year olds play AC? I would have thought their target group is much older.

I'm also not quite sure what you're insinuating by bringing up kids and computer game violence?

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#126
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having someone with an ethnicity present while making something offensive isn't a great defense for the offensive thing.

No, but it's still better than not having such a person around at all.

I find the two pretty orthogonal...

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#127
post #123
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Literally no one is saying that. You literally were: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy

Not at all. My point isn't that you must include diverse characters, but that you cannot say "I really wanted to included more diverse characters in my werewolf samurai game, but couldn't because of historical accuracy". You should be honest and say something like "I didn't add South American warriors to my samurai werewolf game because it honestly never crossed my mind to do so, and even if it had I wouldn't do it b…

The only thing you need to defend in a game is why it doesn't have laser raptors, because there is no game that doesn't get better with laser raptors.

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#128
post #109

You're supposed to see the world through the memories of a 9th century Viking (who also happens to be a great figure of the Nordic mythology), of course the invasion of England will be portrayed in a positive light and Anglo-Saxons would be seen as inferior people. It's a Triple-A game featuring gods, diverse Vikings, and a dude with an axe in his head; if one takes it as a reputable historical source, I say the prob…

As the blog post points out within a decade of the 'great heathen army' and just four years after this game is supposedly set a majority of these vikings had converted to Christianity including prominent leaders among them. That's a very different picture than what the game portrays. There is also a difference between what the characters say and believe and what the environment depicts - e.g. there's not a problem wi…

Seems like the only way for this to work out at all is for the hero to go home after a year (ie before converting): grow old. The entire setting needs to be an old man telling young kids about the old glory and trying to convert them from Christianity. That is about the only way you can justify only showing those actions: his memory, and latter life surrounded by Christian means he wants to remember only those parts. But now you really need to get the player to realize that this his a romanticized past - the player must spend a lot of time seeing contradictions in the player (that is it becomes obvious some things didn't happen the way the player played them!). There are a lot more implications of this line that I can figure out in a few minutes.

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#129
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must point out two problematic assumptions in your reply: First, you're assuming "minorities" (and just that word is a problem, as it's utterly US-centric) are insecure and hypersensitive, which is quite patronizing. Second, this is the line of thinking that has led privileged American influencers to accuse slavic developers of neo-colonialism when they just wanted to represent their own otherwise underrepresented…

As a minority, I agree with OP. I've been playing video games for my entire life and the only Hispanic main character I can think of is that guy from Shadows of the Damned, which had potential to be great since it was made by my two favorite directors, but it's just awful. The character (along with every other) is terribly written and their qualities, like his origins, only come up to be played for cheap laughs. Horr…

Although he's Italian (and created by the Japanese), Mario is a common Hispanic name, but I never really cared about that back then.

It was something that he was a 'human', since Pac-man, Q*bert, Donkey Kong, and Frogger weren't.

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#130
post #38

The most relevant point of this article is not about historical accuracy, but on the contradiction of claiming cultural sensitivity by including gender and origin diversity while totally missing the point on deeper issues. I've grown up in a period when pop culture didn't care much about cultural sensitivity. With proper education anyone can compensate and treat them as pure simplistic fiction, but I do think that th…

> I've grown up in a period when pop culture didn't care much about cultural sensitivity.

I wonder when that was, cause pop culture has always cared about that in one way or another. I believe you are projecting.

> The most relevant point of this article is not about historical accuracy, but on the contradiction of claiming cultural sensitivity by including gender and origin diversity while totally missing the point on deeper issues.

I can't summarize this fantastic write-up, but either way, here goes...

The author goes to great lengths about how in said game the Scandinavian culture is only shown in a positive light (with the bad such as slavery and rites being avoided), whereas the Christian religion is deliberately put into a bad light. That is what the article is mainly about. Example: Christianity is shown as intolerant and hegemonic, Scandinavian the intolerance and hegemony is avoided at all costs. Slavery? Pillaging? Apparently non-existent; instead the Scandinavians colonized Saxon ground, and never took slaves, never raped women, never pillaged or set anything a-fire. Furthermore, Norse culture was very patriarchal, this game shows nothing of that either.

The gender/origin issue is minor in comparison, both in coverage as well as in how relevant the author finds it. Gender a subset of the lack of showing the patriarchy in Scandinavian culture. Origin is a bit odd, as the trade route with North-Africa is more accessible than the one to Eastern Europe and Asia whereas the races shown do not reflect this. It is you who finds the gender/origin issue 'the most relevant'; not the author, nor did the author ever imply such.

A fantasy world can be based on real history as we know it (consider, for example, the Nordic theme in World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King, or the Norsca and Warriors of Chaos in Total War: Warhammer II). If it is then inaccurate, we're OK with that, we see it as artistic freedom. This game tries to base itself directly on history. Big difference!

The author also literally claims the following:

> [...] And to be clear, that is not empowering feminism so much as virtue viewed from a society (like the Romans) which blithely assumed that men were better; it is misogyny masquerading as empowerment. And of course the game indulges in this too, as noted above.

The author does not, at all, appear to agree with your take on the matter.

The author's final chapter is titled: "Conclusion: A Love Letter to Colonialism" which again isn't your take on the matter.

As a side note, what I find funny, is that in a certain music genre, Scandinavian culture is idolized as well: metal music. Certain metal bands, such as for example Amon Amarth, exercise this practice. Coincidentally, the music is also going against the Christian religious dominance. I believe the game is made with such 'counter-culture' in mind; as the deeply religious Christians would not opt to play a Scandinavian religious person. I admit, pure speculation from my side.

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