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2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

anandtech.com

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Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, I don't care whatever they do, I'm not buying into their closed garden of eden. I've already replaced Spotify with Funkwhale, and I'm using Linux, I'm not their target and I'll never be.

Appreciate you taking the time out of your busy day to let us know that.

Thank you, for letting us know you appreciate his opinion.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#122

I hope Apple allows us to install the OS of our choice. The battery life is impressive but I refuse to not use Linux.

I can pretty much guarantee you that trying to run anything other than macOS on Apple's silicon is going to be an exercise in frustration. You will presumably be able to run an Arm build of Linux in a VM--given that Apple has demoed this--but if you want native Linux, I'm not sure why you would pay a premium to possibly get a bit more performance on a laptop while probably having various support issues.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#123
post #89
post #8

It seems that Apple kept its eyes on the goal of beating Intel, while underestimating AMD (like just about everyone else). Still, now Apple has the #2 fastest CPU on the market and with different ISA. Intel....#3. Oh, how the mighty has fallen. At least AMD won't get to rest on its laurels now, as Apple will definitely try to surpass Zen 4, too, now, or at least Zen 5.

Well, Apple released the M1 as their low-end chip, putting it in the entry-level slot of their low-power Macs. They may have something with substantially more power in store soon.

The cheapest MacBook Air with an M1 chip is $1,000. The cheapest Mac Pro with an M1 chip is $1,300.

I don't consider a $1,000+ laptop "entry level" or "low end". These are high-end machines.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#124

I hope Apple allows us to install the OS of our choice. The battery life is impressive but I refuse to not use Linux.

They have already stated they won’t:

“We’re not direct booting an alternate operating system,” says Craig Federighi, Apple’s senior vice president of software engineering. “Purely virtualization is the route. [...]”

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/24/21302213/apple-silicon-ma...

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#125
post #58

I'm not surprised it's doing well. Apple has deeper pockets than anyone else on the planet, and they have considerable experience doing this kind of thing –literally, decades . Say what you will about Apple; this is a strong point for them. But I'm still waiting for the M2 before I upgrade. I'm also interested in new form factors. Right now, they are still relying on the currently-tooled production line for their she…

I'd say Intel has the deepest pockets regarding CPU R&D, and yet they are being overtaken left and right.

I also feel like Intel's depth is also limited by the breath of CPUS they must develop. With every release they are shipping tons of specific sets of cores and clock speeds to meet their market. Then you have the raw investment in Fab that has turned out to be just lighting cash on fire for Intel. They make all kinds of claims and then fail over and over, plus they are hemorrhaging key talent. I think their soul really isn't in the game.

Apple has the luxury of building two or three chips total per year and simply funding TSMC fab. All of this is to fund the largest grossing annual product launch. If their chips fail at being world beaters, hundreds of billions of dollars are on the table. All in, Apple spends an incredible amount of money here, ~$1 billion. Per chip design shipped, Apple is probably spending much more but also getting their return on investment. It's such a tight integration that if TSMC were ever delayed by say, four months, I have no idea what Apple would do.

AMD is playing smart, fast and loose. Best chip CEO by a wide margin. AMD's gains really are on Apple's back, their chip design is brilliant and they get to reap the leftovers when Apple turns out their latest chip. They don't have to fund Fab, they don't have to make crazy claims to appear relevant like Intel does. They just ship great bang for the buck and the fab gains and their own hard work has given them best performance title too. Going Fabless was one of the most controversial choices ever made in the industry...and wow, was it the right move.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#127

> "Whilst the software doesn’t offer the best the hardware can offer, with time, as developers migrate their applications to native Apple Silicon support, the ecosystem will flourish." I think that more developers would be excited about migrating their apps to support native apple silicon if Apple wasn't so developer hostile at the moment. I am referring to stuff like Apple's Online Certificate Status Protocol ( http…

You should quit HN for a day or two. The stuff echo-chamber of HN repeats often has very little to do with reality. Apple has many thousands of developers. It is not hostile to them in any way, shape or form. For some reason this cliche is most often repeated by the people who never wrote a single line of code for iOS or MacOS

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#128

I'm not buying into Apple's eventually-closed desktop computer systems - I don't care what the performance is. They've been slowly marching towards iOS's closed ecosystem model on the Mac and with an in-house CPU, they can effectively lock users out of alternate OS choices on their hardware. Buyer beware.

I feel exactly the same way, but I do wonder how this gap is going to close. If Microsoft team up with another ARM vendor and make similarly closed-off, proprietary glue sandwiches as a response, where does that leave Linux? I doubt PC-compatible, x86 laptops are going to disappear off the face of the Earth anytime soon, but... if there's basically two types of machines, and ours have worse performance and half the battery life at twice the thickness (plus a fan, as a free bonus), a Linux machine is a tough sell to someone who hasn't already bought in. For the Linux workstation experience to keep up, we need more people coming in, and if new people can't dip their toes on hardware they already own, that raises the bar significantly.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#130

Wow it must suck to be Intel right now. It wasn't so long ago that the trope was while others had better multi-core performance "...Intel still holds the lead for single core performance" Now not only do AMD have a better product, but also Apple now offer equal or better performance than the best that Intel can offer. I wonder what is next for Intel now their £1000+ CPUs are firmly in third place. Looking forward to…

Not long ago at all, like just a few weeks ago right before zen3 was out in the wild! A double whammy for sure for Intel, tough times ahead indeed. Apologists can hand wave AMD off by citing the huge lead in sales that Intel still enjoys, but that argument falls flat with Apple, a trillion dollar company. Maybe Intel will start to compete on price like AMD used to.

I think they announced a short while back that they're "looking at trying to outsource manufacturing of some high end parts", ie they've known that they were falling behind in too many areas due to their shrinkage problems so they're taking in help from the outside to not become irrelevant.

M1 is running on "5nm", looking at specs Intel 10NM is 100Mtr/mm2 vs TSMC's Apple 5nm chips being 173Mtr/mm2 (So even if Intel nomenclature seems more conservative they still lag by a lot in manufacturing capacity)

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