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Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

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Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd have a better argument if you left out the first half. >"Mostly peaceful protests", an ongoing gross misrepresentation of what normal people would call riots That's a partisan, Fox News talking point. Statistically, the BLM protests were overwhelmingly peaceful. The news happens to focus on the small number that were not. That's also an example of something which could be fairly, scientifically reported on. "Mo…

That's exactly what we're talking about, isn't it? Fragmentation of reality on the internet. There's no way around it because someone will just deny someone else's reality and substitute their own. With intellectual honesty, the following can't be disputed: * "A few riots" is actually hundreds of riots over the longest sustained period of civil unrest in American history (besides the civil war). Here's a geographical…

> I'm just trying to show you that you are capable of being wrong

That's quite a rude way to try to win an argument. And yes, you're cherry picking. Did you even read the article which contained the first image you linked?

"The vast majority of demonstration events associated with the BLM movement are non-violent (see map below). In more than 93% of all demonstrations connected to the movement, demonstrators have not engaged in violence or destructive activity. Peaceful protests are reported in over 2,400 distinct locations around the country. Violent demonstrations,4 meanwhile, have been limited to fewer than 220 locations — under 10% of the areas that experienced peaceful protests. In many urban areas like Portland, Oregon, for example, which has seen sustained unrest since Floyd’s killing, violent demonstrations are largely confined to specific blocks, rather than dispersed throughout the city"

https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/demonstrations-political-vi...

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#122
post #111

"Show me the incentives and I'll show you the outcome." This whole ad driven attention economy is probably as dangerous of an invention as nuclear weapons. We're caught in a state of psychosis and individually none of us can do anything to fight the billions of dollars spent on advertising that tries to make us feel inadequate. Targeted ads and recommendation engines need to be banned. I know some people say they lik…

> Targeted ads and recommendation engines need to be banned. I don't see how you can "ban ads" without instituting totalitarian dictatorship. Targeted arguments are a core part of political campaigning and polarization has been increasing in the US for decades, even before the internet. My pet solution would to switch to a multi-party system that isolates rather than amplifies fringe voices. In germany people can loo…

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Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#123

"Show me the incentives and I'll show you the outcome." This whole ad driven attention economy is probably as dangerous of an invention as nuclear weapons. We're caught in a state of psychosis and individually none of us can do anything to fight the billions of dollars spent on advertising that tries to make us feel inadequate. Targeted ads and recommendation engines need to be banned. I know some people say they lik…

It's not that the ads are targeted, but rather what they're targeted based on.

Google's search ads used to be displayed based on the keywords being searched, rather than the user viewing them. Facebook based on what you've "liked". Amazon and eBay based on what you've bought before on their sites.

Go back to targeting ads based on page context and explicitly provided information (search queries, what I actually enter into my "profile", etc), rather than machine surveillance and inferences.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#124
post #8

Regardless of your view on "misinformation", this sounds like a stupid idea that's meant to cover Twitter's butts in the short-term. The goal of any social platform should be healthy engagement. Where is the research that this change will foster that? Twitter isn't really the place to be testing half-baked ideas. Also, misinformation is coming from mainstream media as well as conspiracy theorists. At least conspiracy…

This is not "totalitarianism", it's the reduction of free newsfeed distribution. Twitter, and society, doesn't have a long-term interest in a newsfeed flooded with false/defamatory information (widespread voter fraud, for example) >conspiracy theorists are trying to find the truth Some of the biggest conspiracy theories that flourish on the web are the result of viral, provably false, information. These people are no…

The election results are almost identically opposite this time around in swing states but suddenly no signs of russian interference anywhere. Imagine that.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#125

What would it take to replace Twitter and Facebook?

I don't understand what you would gain by replacing Twitter and Facebook. The incentives and structures that created them are here to stay. Anyone who thinks their open source pet projects wouldn't face the same problems Twitter has at the scale 300M active users is just being woefully ignorant of politics at play here and still thinks Twitter can be built in a weekend.

In 2016, you had a guy jokingly claim that he was ripping republican ballots in Ohio. This tweet spread like wildfire, and caused an unimaginable headache for the secretary of state as the right-wing media went wild on the story. I'm not surprised Twitter is taking such heavy handed action given that they will be directly in the cross hairs if a story like that ever happens again. No "replacement" would be immune from this issue.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#126

The culture of any community is shaped by the worst behaviour that is tolerated. Related: Why unmoderated online forums always degenerate into fascism https://www.salon.com/2019/08/05/why-unmoderated-online-foru...

But this is historically inaccurate. The issue of forums becoming hateful echo chambers is a new phenomenon, not a time tested one. Digg wasn't a terrible hateful echo chamber, reddit was not, most topic oriented forums are not, lots of alternative sites springing up nowadays are not, Facebook, MySpace, the list goes on. No, the phenomenon that lasted really only a few years was due to the fact that the first Diaspor…

>Digg wasn't a terrible hateful echo chamber, reddit was not, most topic oriented forums are not

Those platforms, from the topic oriented platforms, to digg & reddit all stressed moderation. What's new is this idea that any sort of moderation is an infringement of free speech and content platforms should moderate as little as possible. Moderation used to be far stricter when platforms were smaller.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what we're talking about, isn't it? Fragmentation of reality on the internet. There's no way around it because someone will just deny someone else's reality and substitute their own. With intellectual honesty, the following can't be disputed: * "A few riots" is actually hundreds of riots over the longest sustained period of civil unrest in American history (besides the civil war). Here's a geographical…

> I'm just trying to show you that you are capable of being wrong That's quite a rude way to try to win an argument. And yes, you're cherry picking. Did you even read the article which contained the first image you linked? "The vast majority of demonstration events associated with the BLM movement are non-violent (see map below). In more than 93% of all demonstrations connected to the movement, demonstrators have not…

Since when has sustained rioting been acceptable as long as it's "confined to specific blocks"? It quickly became clear to any rational person that rioting in Portland would occur consistently following peaceful protests and that a number of the peaceful protesters would participate in the riots. The effort to downplay what has been occurring in Portland is astonishing. I mean, how many blocks of sustained rioting are ok? Two? Ten?

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what we're talking about, isn't it? Fragmentation of reality on the internet. There's no way around it because someone will just deny someone else's reality and substitute their own. With intellectual honesty, the following can't be disputed: * "A few riots" is actually hundreds of riots over the longest sustained period of civil unrest in American history (besides the civil war). Here's a geographical…

> I'm just trying to show you that you are capable of being wrong That's quite a rude way to try to win an argument. And yes, you're cherry picking. Did you even read the article which contained the first image you linked? "The vast majority of demonstration events associated with the BLM movement are non-violent (see map below). In more than 93% of all demonstrations connected to the movement, demonstrators have not…

What is peace? And when is something peaceful? Webster's dictionary defines peaceful as "untroubled by conflict, agitation, or commotion". Certainly, if almost 10% of my coworkers were violent, I would not call my workplace peaceful. If one in ten of our servers were disrupted due to commotion, clients would quickly start leaving for alternatives.

In my own country we also saw protests after the death of George Floyd. These were dispersed forcefully by police, indirectly because of Corona restrictions. I do not think the police officers, who put their health and safety at risk, felt particularly peaceful when engaging huge crowds with batons and riot shields.

There were peaceful protests, and there were violent ones. There were orderly citizens as well as looters and rioters. The trend is what matters, the frequency. Imagine if 10% of a rock band's concerts resulted in venues being burnt down, people seriously hurt and even killed, would that band's concerts be considered peaceful?

I've seen videos from the affected cities and neighbourhoods, if that's what a peaceful America looks like then I hope they never experience commotion or unrest.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#129
post #78

"Show me the incentives and I'll show you the outcome." This whole ad driven attention economy is probably as dangerous of an invention as nuclear weapons. We're caught in a state of psychosis and individually none of us can do anything to fight the billions of dollars spent on advertising that tries to make us feel inadequate. Targeted ads and recommendation engines need to be banned. I know some people say they lik…

Individually we can do something to fight it. If you can't block the ads, learn to ignore them.

Considering advertisement works on a subconcious level, ignoring them will take some serious serious mental discipline. Maybe after spending a few years in a monastery on a mountain will you be able to resist their invasion into your subconscious headspace.

Re: Twitter may slow down users’ ability to ‘like’ tweets containing misinformation

#130
post #76

The culture of any community is shaped by the worst behaviour that is tolerated. Related: Why unmoderated online forums always degenerate into fascism https://www.salon.com/2019/08/05/why-unmoderated-online-foru...

Another reading of this (which I don't agree with) is that "liberal" ideas need censorship to survive. Which one is the correct interpretation is almost impossible to determine without sophisticated methods of testing.

Or that fascist ideas tap into some primal root of our consciousness like a disease, latching on like an addiction that we are powerless to fight. In my mind tribalism is inherent to the human condition. Being ready to go off and violently slaughter people who aren't our kin is the very reason why our lineages exist today and why you and I have had millions of generations of parents surviving long enough to produce offspring. We are directly descended from the most violent and most tribalistic of humans, as the more peaceful lineages would have long since been killed off by our ancestors who practiced coordinated violence.

It doesn't take much to push people back into this primal level of thinking. We are predisposed to follow a charismatic leader, predisposed to follow a religion and adhere to it without any weighing of its systems with that of other religions or thinking critically about our beliefs, predisposed to fear the unknown 'other' rather than welcome them and their ideas. Millions of years of selective pressures have created who we are and how we behave toward one another, it's no surprise that there are some serious growing pains toward adapting to this new world where we attempt to treat others as equals rather than threats. Same sex marriage was only legalized five years ago in the US, after all.

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