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Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

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121–130 of 632 posts

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe those services pay for a huge welfare and pension system, and healthcare which is mostly used by the elderly. Very little benefit will be received by a working-age expat.

As a working-age expat, you might still have an ambulance called after an accident or a drug overdose after partying, having cancer surgery, a flu shot, a pregnancy or an IVF, all for free.

They have ambulances in the US too. Also, isn't Finland a country where you pay health insurance? If that is free, a lot of things in the US suddenly are free as well.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#122
post #2

This is honestly a great way for tech entrepreneurs to experience Nordic living. The fact is Finland has one of the most startup friendly environments around: — top schools (Aalto U. produces incredibly talented engineers) — startup friendly ecosystem (cheap rents, cheap internet) — Finnish work culture (direct, no nonsense, hard working but balanced) — fantastic food and beverage scene in downtown Helsinki My wife i…

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Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#123
post #89
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Worlds largest military also sucks up tax dollars but don’t give any benefits back. It's easy to say a military is worthless until you actually need it. But, Finland was under Russian occupation for decades. I would guess plenty of Finns wished they had a better military then.

Which decades are you talking about? Finland was part of the Russian Empire between 1809 and 1917, but hasn’t been invaded since — although Stalin gave it a good shot.

Invaded twice, but not occupied. Indeed, I believe Helsinki and London were the only capitals of non-neutral European countries that were not occupied during the WW2.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#124
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Still worth it for 'free' education and 'free' healthcare? No brainer, absolutely worth it. Even making good money in Silicon Valley I'm perpetually afraid of medical bankruptcy if something were to happen. And the cost of education here takes another 15% off my salary for schools far lower quality than in Finland.

>Even making good money in Silicon Valley I'm perpetually afraid of medical bankruptcy if something were to happen. Let me get this straight - you are covered by medical insurance (assuming on "making good money"), and you're "perpetually afraid" that you will be forced in to bankruptcy after being treated for life threatening condition ? Not the fact that you'll first need to have a life threatening condition that r…

This is an entirely reasonable concern and I agree with it. If you're not in the US (or you're young / otherwise don't know people with horror stories) it may not make sense to you, and yes, it's awful that it's realistic, but it's still realistic.

1. Coverage by medical insurance, in the US, does not generally translate to 100% coverage. For a variety of reasons, including coinsurance, copays, out-of-network coverage (especially common if there's some sort of emergency), in-network coverage beyond what's covered (e.g., the doctor says "this is medically necessary" and some bureaucrat at the insurance company says "I disagree"), and so forth, you can have a medical insurance plan and still be on the hook for large amounts of money.

(I don't think you implied this, but just to clarify, "making good money" is typically not strongly correlated with having good insurance. Because of how byzantine medical insurance is, it's hard for a potential employee to figure out what their offered benefits will actually cover, so it's generally not a factor in negotiations at all, unlike actual salary, and in turn higher-paying employers don't have a particularly strong reason to offer better insurance plans.)

2. You can have a "life-threatening condition" that is easily manageable via modern medicine. Take diabetes, for instance - life-threatening if unmanaged, but very well-understood in how to manage it. I have a friend with a chronic condition that requires taking an (expensive, only partially covered by high-tech-employee insurance plans) injection once a month. As long as they take that injection they're fine; their body becomes effectively unusable without it. I know multiple people who have beaten cancer; I don't think any of them would say that the actual process of beating it was easy (or cheap). The whole reason you care about medical care is so that "life-threatening conditions" stop being life-threatening.

Also, we have this pandemic going around which absolutely can be life-threatening, but even among the people who get very sick with it, many of them come out of it fine provided they have immediate high-quality medical care.

3. Beyond the assumption that the person you're replying to is treating family poorly... the amounts of money in question are generally larger than can even be pooled across many family members and large support networks, even if they all have substantial savings on their own. And even if technically I can manage to pay off a medical bill by exhausting my life savings and those of my extended family, what happens when someone else in the family gets sick?

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#125
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No catch, they only want to "capture" SV engineers. So if you work for Google in San Francisco and you convince your bosses you can work 3 months from Helsinki legally and hopefully for Finland form a company there or meet a Finn and bring them back to the US with you.

> meet a Finn and bring them back to the US with you Can you elaborate on this part?

Perhaps trying to balance the “capture” of SV engineers? We wouldn’t want the world to fall over if the population balance got out of whack, right?

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#126
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not like taxes disappear into a black hole never to be seen. Most of that money comes back to you in the form of services Americans would have to pay for anyway. What matters is what the taxes give you. A lot of American taxes don’t give people much of anything. Maintaining the worlds largest prison population is expensive but what exactly does that give the Average American? Worlds largest military also sucks…

> Worlds largest military also sucks up tax dollars but don’t give any benefits back. It's easy to say a military is worthless until you actually need it. But, Finland was under Russian occupation for decades. I would guess plenty of Finns wished they had a better military then.

Quite right. The us$ is up with a large support of the 20 aircraft carrier you have. As said you cannot pay the firman when there is fire.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barring the few lucky people with those platinum-plated insurance policies, American workers with normal insurance are one random cancer diagnosis away from total bankruptcy. You can have a great salary, do everything right, be frugal, save in your 401k invest well——it all goes poof when you get sick. Honestly, I’d trade half my salary to not have to avoid the doctor because his diagnosis might ruin me.

There's an $8,500 annual maximum out-of-pocket per individual under ACA. That's a lot over several years, but it's not going to be retirement-destroying for most SV workers.

This is only true of Marketplace plans (which are, increasingly, very bad deals is you're not actively using your insurance - even back in 2015 when I was looking for Marketplace plans for myself, I could easily spend close to that amount on the premiums of plans that had high deductibles/coinsurance/etc. and it's not like the Marketplace has gotten more competitive since then), and I think it's only true of expenses that the insurance company is willing to cover - if you get treatment out of network, or if you get treatment beyond what's insured (e.g. you get "elective" surgery on the medical advice of your doctor to avoid a bigger problem later), I don't believe those are covered by the out-of-pocket max.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#128
post #74

I just applied, thanks for posting this! I spent the summer of 2017 interning in Helsinki for Smartly ( https://www.smartly.io/ ) and had an amazing time. I've heard the winter is a little bit different, but I'm willing to try it out. For anyone else thinking about it -- don't be worried about the language barrier, everyone speaks English, and you can mostly pass as a native by mumbling, saying kiitos, and shrugging…

“A little different” in the way that a massage is a little different from a prostate exam

But which is which? A proper massage both takes longer and is more uncomfortable than a prostate exam.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helsinki is 600,000 people and 400/km^2. That's essentially the same as Oklahoma City. I know OKC has a basketball team and city is in the name, but most people wouldn't call OKC a big city and wouldn't be surprised by better air quality compared to places with millions of people.

Helsinki itself is only 600,000 people, but Helsinki has fused into a single big city with the neighboring municipalities of Espoo and Vantaa (and a bunch of smaller ones), and the total population exceeds one million people.

The OKC metro is also 1.5 million people. The two are very comparable by population/size. It doesn't detract from the point that Helsinki isn't a large city. I'm giving regional context to Americans that if you don't consider OKC large, you shouldn't consider Helsinki large.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#130

None of the photos are taken in winter. Admiral Ackbar voice It's a trap!

For the record, Helsinki is a coastal city in the southern end of the country. It's about 10C there at the moment.

To be fair, a windy rainy winter in Helsinki can feel much harsher than a colder but calmer and snowier one farther north.
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