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Goodbye, Native Apps

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Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#121

Post by Silhouette »

FpUser wrote: post #108
Silhouette wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important question is, does that matter ? Slick web apps are taking over the software world, whether the likes of Apple want them to or not. Looking like any specific native platform is less important, if it's even relevant at all, in an era when users are working with different web apps each with their own look-and-feel all the time anyway.

While there are really good looking examples to me the most of web apps do not look slick at all. They're rather extremely unergonomic

I don't disagree, but I think you could say the same about native apps too. For this discussion, I think the most important thing is what good examples of each type can achieve, since presumably those are the ones that most people will choose to use.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#122

Post by nzentzis »

Silhouette wrote: post #95
wtallis wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter? Yes, of course. The desire for consistency and usability may not be strong enough to reverse the current trend away from native apps, but that doesn't remove their advantages. And I find it very telling that even your own comment continues the trend of over-emphasizing look over feel . I'd be happy with apps randomly launching in night mode, if they would just have all the right controls in the right…

The problem with that argument is that you're assuming consistency with native platform standards is the dominant consideration. I contend that, today, it often is not. Many users are spending much of their time using web sites and applications rather than native ones; this trend does not appear to be in dispute here. Moreover, the basics of how web sites (and by extension web apps) work have a longer history of esta…

I keep hearing the "web technologies are fine, you're just using them wrong" refrain over and over again, but it's ultimately not very convincing. If it's true, then where are all the good web applications? I've certainly never seen any of them. Can you give an example?

If nobody can get Web technologies to deliver a good experience, then I'm not sure it matters that much whether or not it's possible in theory. Delivering a theoretically great user experience won't get you anywhere unless it also translates to practice.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#123

Post by kgin »

athenot wrote: post #35
burtonator wrote: post #32

Here's the thing. Apple, Google, etc are trying to lock developers into specific platforms. This is why Apple has been so hostile towards PWAs. It's totally possible to build a PWA that behaves like a native app but Apple actively tries to destroy them. There will never be a viable hybrid app platform.

> It's totally possible to build a PWA that behaves like a native app but Apple actively tries to destroy them. It may look the part but it rarely feels like it. Something like OmniGraffle would not end up feeling the same. Even Microsoft's apps on mac feel better than their web-based counterparts in O365.

It easily could feel like it, given a very reasonable amount of support by platform owners.

There is nothing magical about Ui powered by compiled vs interpreted code. It is limitations in the platforms that are the roadblocks.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#124

Post by swsieber »

ausjke wrote: post #114
beached_whale wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of people doing C++ backend as an Electron extension. The C++ can be compiled on almost any OS does the non GUI stuff.

then why still use Electron? why not just c++-backend with an embedded http server for frontend that uses the browser

Security? Seems like any webpage could make calls to your program, no?

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#125

Post by pgcj_poster »

MattGaiser wrote: post #55
tluyben2 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a techie I mostly do not care as long as it works either, if I am not writing it myself (and sometimes even then but I care more now than years ago). However; things do not work a lot of the times; my wife is a writer, almost all my friends are non technical and they complain a lot about how crap everything is. And when I check the culprit is always lack of memory and it is always chrome (the browser and in Electr…

Does the end user care enough to switch? As if all you are doing is complaining but it does not alter behaviour (specifically usage or purchasing behaviour) then for all business purposes they do not care.

Agreed, companies often make anti-user decisions for good "business purposes."

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#126

Post by beached_whale »

ausjke wrote: post #114
beached_whale wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of people doing C++ backend as an Electron extension. The C++ can be compiled on almost any OS does the non GUI stuff.

then why still use Electron? why not just c++-backend with an embedded http server for frontend that uses the browser

Theres a lot of people proficient in Electron. It also handles IO I assume

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#127

Post by Silhouette »

nzentzis wrote: post #122
Silhouette wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that argument is that you're assuming consistency with native platform standards is the dominant consideration. I contend that, today, it often is not. Many users are spending much of their time using web sites and applications rather than native ones; this trend does not appear to be in dispute here. Moreover, the basics of how web sites (and by extension web apps) work have a longer history of esta…

I keep hearing the "web technologies are fine, you're just using them wrong" refrain over and over again, but it's ultimately not very convincing. If it's true, then where are all the good web applications? I've certainly never seen any of them. Can you give an example? If nobody can get Web technologies to deliver a good experience, then I'm not sure it matters that much whether or not it's possible in theory. Deliv…

What do you consider a good application? If you have never seen anything that would qualify on the Web then I have to ask what standards you are seeking and whether any software actually meets them.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#128

Post by akritrime »

ausjke wrote: post #114
beached_whale wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of people doing C++ backend as an Electron extension. The C++ can be compiled on almost any OS does the non GUI stuff.

then why still use Electron? why not just c++-backend with an embedded http server for frontend that uses the browser

For many users that can be an alien experience. For most non-technical people, browser is still primarily for accessing contents on the web and switching them to a user experience where you have to start a backend server locally and then access it via the web browser can just feel hacky and even a bit off-putting.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#129

Post by the_only_law »

ausjke wrote: post #114
beached_whale wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of people doing C++ backend as an Electron extension. The C++ can be compiled on almost any OS does the non GUI stuff.

then why still use Electron? why not just c++-backend with an embedded http server for frontend that uses the browser

I would assume for the same reason that they don't just use a normal web app. They want the packaging of a native app.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#130

Post by sudobash1 »

reader_mode wrote: post #96

How is this getting uovoted ? Is nobody reading the article ? A few paragraphs in and I can see the author has terrible writing skills and doesn't know what he's talking about >In fact, writing software with C/C++ was hard because developers had to work with different operating system API(Application Programming Interface). Seriously ? Writing C++ apps is hard because you had to use different APIs ? That's the least…

I agree the article in of itself doesn't deserve front page placement, but the discussion that it is generating does. Sometimes I upvote or favorite mainly because I found the comments engaging and informative.
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