Are we losing our ability to remember? • Hacker News Board

Re: Are we losing our ability to remember?

#121

Post by ohduran » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #110

sixdimensional wrote: post #61

I once took a class in college, “Cars and Culture”. I never forgot a line from that class - that “cars provided an extension of our legs”. Ever since then, I have told many people and thought to myself many times, that tools, take Google for instance (search and indexing), knowledge management systems (Wiki and other techniques) - these are all extensions of our brains. We evolve with technology, and it evolves with…

I always thought that the most terrifying thing in the book 1984 (and the most relevant to the pending future) was that people weren't allowed tools to write anything down, they had to use the "speakwrite," which would monitor the user and refuse to write things that weren't allowed to be written. Orwell wasn't prescient enough to imagine the type-remember, where you kept your entire perception of the world on machin…

I always thought that Brave New World was more prescient than 1984: you won't be forbid to write, we'll instead give you something more fun and distracting to do instead.

Re: Are we losing our ability to remember?

#122

Post by ohduran » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 6:44 PM UTC

ravi-delia wrote: post #116

BitwiseFool wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me personally, the internet has made my brain better at remembering associations between ideas, but worse at free-recall of factual information. It's like my mind got better at indexing at the expense of storage.

That's actually the perfect explanation. Even studying cognitive science I'm always amazed at how analogous the brain is to a computer.

Ah, that's interesting, I read it the opposite way: computers are so different from the brain that the end result is that they complement each other really well.

Re: Are we losing our ability to remember?

#123

Post by sammalloy » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

sixdimensional wrote: post #61

I once took a class in college, “Cars and Culture”. I never forgot a line from that class - that “cars provided an extension of our legs”. Ever since then, I have told many people and thought to myself many times, that tools, take Google for instance (search and indexing), knowledge management systems (Wiki and other techniques) - these are all extensions of our brains. We evolve with technology, and it evolves with…

> cars provided an extension of our legs

Marshall McLuhan wrote that in 1964 in "Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man".

Re: Are we losing our ability to remember?

#124

Post by allenu » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

spicymaki wrote: post #32

I feel that in general we are consuming a lot more information than we really need. I am not sure the human brain was evolved to handle a large amount of information that does not have any physical references. I find myself not only forgetting myriad facts and figures, but also mixing up information or having false memories. Many of my memories have nothing to anchor on. I think the trend today is to prime the brain…

I also think we consume more information that we need. I think we also tend to overvalue getting that information and retaining it. The HN crowd is biased towards analysis and information, but just look at the abundance of note-taking systems posted.

I used to store as much info as I could somewhere (a personal wiki) but over the years I realized there's just too much there and most of it I never need, and if I do need something, I can look it up again anyway.

I think it's possible to become something of an information pack rat. It's true that for me learning something new feels productive somehow, but if I were to be honest, most of the knowledge I seek out online doesn't really provide me with direct value. The act of seeking it out as well is time that could've been used to do something else.

Re: Are we losing our ability to remember?

#125

Post by Beefin » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 7:23 PM UTC

driven20 wrote: post #42

I second, second brain. heh. I invested like 20 hours setting up my notion just right, and it's so worth it. It's so much more organize than my mucky/intangible brain. I also believe in the GTD philosophy that your brain is for having ideas, not storing them.

totally agree, this is my notion homepage and it's reduced A TON of stress:

https://imgur.com/a/qTsL3l3

Re: Are we losing our ability to remember?

#126

Post by sour-taste » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 7:34 PM UTC

I've absolutely noticed this. I generally don't remember what I read on HN, or in documentation. What I do remember is the fact that I've read it, and a vague sense of where, and hopefully a few keywords to type into Google. I actively try to keep my memory sharp by doing recall exercises, but I think it's a losing battle: when we know we can find something later you either consciously or subconsciously do less effort to remember it.

Re: Are we losing our ability to remember?

#127

Post by nend » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 7:45 PM UTC

xmprt wrote: post #119

pessimizer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's are two serious differences between 40 years ago and now. 1) I can look up a thing I can't remember (or don't know) both specifically and immediately. 40 years ago this might have taken a week and an inter-library loan. I'd certainly be sure to remember what I'd learned afterwards. And, 2) Things that I once looked up can be silently changed or removed the next time I try to look them up. I don't think it's u…

Why is it important to remember everything that you've read especially in this day and age? 90% of stuff you Google is just to help you get a small task done or learn something that seemed important in the moment. Another 9% might be something you write down in a notebook to look back at later. Very few things are worth actively keeping track of in your mind and those are usually fundamental building blocks of a new…

>The brain is for thinking, not for remembering.

I mean, millions of years of evolution would disagree. Seems pretty shortsighted to declare memory useless.

Re: Are we losing our ability to remember?

#128

Post by nescioquid » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 7:45 PM UTC

xmprt wrote: post #119

pessimizer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's are two serious differences between 40 years ago and now. 1) I can look up a thing I can't remember (or don't know) both specifically and immediately. 40 years ago this might have taken a week and an inter-library loan. I'd certainly be sure to remember what I'd learned afterwards. And, 2) Things that I once looked up can be silently changed or removed the next time I try to look them up. I don't think it's u…

Why is it important to remember everything that you've read especially in this day and age? 90% of stuff you Google is just to help you get a small task done or learn something that seemed important in the moment. Another 9% might be something you write down in a notebook to look back at later. Very few things are worth actively keeping track of in your mind and those are usually fundamental building blocks of a new…

> The brain is for thinking, not for remembering.

An observation I used to see with more frequency, is that a part of thinking depends on noticing patterns and connections between things. If you don't have any working or long-terms storage, this is impossible. Developing new insights will depend on internalizing at least some amount of information.

The googling to complete some small task (e.g. what was the second parameter's type?) -- I'm not sure I'd really consider that thinking, per se. It is definitely something that contributes to our general cognitive load, and the ubiquity of search surely is a welcome aid, as you suggest; there really are too many unimportant things to keep in our heads.

Re: Are we losing our ability to remember?

#129

Post by leetreveil » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 7:47 PM UTC

codecutter wrote: post #120

BitwiseFool wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me personally, the internet has made my brain better at remembering associations between ideas, but worse at free-recall of factual information. It's like my mind got better at indexing at the expense of storage.

My mind got better at indexing at the expense of storage >> Well said. I am going to use your quote :) (so that it moves to my long-term memory.) Thank you.

I'm going to steal your quote too, if I can remember it ;)

Re: Are we losing our ability to remember?

#130

Post by hungryforcodes » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

durandal1 wrote: post #104

Pretty sure the three main factors that decreases your ability to retain information is: * Lack of sleep * Stress * Age Usually all three hit at once, as our career peaks in intensity around our late 30s, while also having kids.

Late 30s is most certainly not old.