Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland • Hacker News Board

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#121

Post by rootusrootus » Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 11:08 PM UTC

atoombs wrote: post #67

foota wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roads don't break even, why should we expect trains to?

I never understand this line of thought. We invest in infrastructure to enable people to move between places, commune with one another, and trade goods. We've invested a tremendous amount in roads. Why do we expect other things like the USPS, Amtrak, etc. to generate profits when they're an expenditure in infrastructure?

It's hard to justify investing in rail. At best, in most parts of the US it is slower, more expensive, and less convenient. There are some edge cases that it makes real sense for, but everywhere else is better served by cars and airplanes.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#122

Post by some-guy » Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 11:09 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #60

always_left wrote: post #21

Amazing that they can achieve that yet I'm in the bay area and I'm in a never-ending war with Comcast to achieve 50mbp/s

Hmm... This is not possible. The entire bay area has 1 Gbps capability offered by Comcast.

Even if this is true, it's only 1gbps download.

Thankfully I have access to Monkeybrains. Our speed is 500mpbs down and up, no data cap, $35 a month. Unfortunately they're not widely available.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#123

Post by harry8 » Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 11:09 PM UTC

singhrac wrote: post #4

I would honestly pay significantly higher taxes if we could get Swiss-quality train service in parts of the US (and especially if they have good internet). When I traveled Boston to NY in the past, compare my flight experience vs Amtrak. Flight: - Take $25 Uber to airport and get there 1 hour early to go through security and wait. - Fly to JFK (1h 20m) - land, wait to get off, go through terminal again, then take $50…

Sadly I think this is a harder problem to solve than it first appears. Given all the technical obstacles and solutions the defining factor for good rail services in a country seems to be:

"Does this country have a tradition of good rail services and take pride in them."

Establishing that is hard. It seems really hard to make the technical solutions work without it. Japan, France, Germany, Switzerland, Spain and others, trains are great. USA, UK, Australia, Canada - not always terrible but not in the same class. It's not talent. It's not wealth, I doubt the English Language is a hinderance here...

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#124

Post by pdxandi » Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 11:14 PM UTC

always_left wrote: post #21

Amazing that they can achieve that yet I'm in the bay area and I'm in a never-ending war with Comcast to achieve 50mbp/s

I just cancelled Comcast this week and am in the Bay Area too. I've been going (polite) rounds with their customer support since March. Constantly losing connection, uploads peak at 1Mbps, horribly unreliable.

I paid for their 110Mbps plan and have worked remotely for many years. Video dropping all the time, router hanging. After upgrading all my equipment because they wouldn't admit fault, I got a tech to come out who was completely candid because I showed him my modem SNR and power levels and he knew I wasn't messing around.

Without fail, he pointed to the pole top node and said that's the problem. It was Sunday and the realtime congestion was near 80%. He said it was scheduled for upgrade but everything is delayed because of supply chain issue in China.

That was all I needed to hear. Canceled that day, got AT&T copper (no fiber here), and it's been solid so far.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#125

Post by Dylan16807 » Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 11:18 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #113

Dylan16807 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? If we prioritized passengers, then rail freight will regularly take several extra hours to get places. Would that even be a real problem? Would anything else bad happen?

That would be a huge problem. You'd see freeways entirely congested with trucking instead. Freeways that are congested enough as it is. We need to build a grade separated passenger rail network.

What if we made sure trucks still cost more?

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#126

Post by unpopular42 » Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 11:19 PM UTC

ggm wrote: post #114

wpdev_63 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem with the US interstate train system is that it's run on freight train lines. Amtrak and Acela do not actually own the railway they use and they can only go a certain speed due to the grade of the track. I don't think you would be willing to pay the amount of taxes you would need to, to completely redo the railways haha. Anyways Amtrak are barely turning a profit as it is and while it would be great t…

> I don't think you would be willing to pay the amount of taxes you would need to, to completely redo the railways haha. This premise feels wrong: The Swiss, German, Chinese, Spanish experience is that people pay to have high speed rail services, and the G20 economies in that list pay high marginal rates of taxes just fine, for this outcome. The "you" here is conditionally the "you" of current social mores America. I…

Swiss taxes vary by location but are generally not higher than the US taxes. So it's not about paying more, it's about wasting less.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#127

Post by rootusrootus » Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 11:21 PM UTC

pansinghkoder wrote: post #49

whimsicalism wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anywhere further than Boston -> NY, the flight is considerably cheaper though.

SF-LA SF-Sacramento SF-Tahoe SF-Napa SEA-PDX Austin-Dallas-Houston LA-Las Vegas-Phoenix-Tucson And I am not talking snail Amtrak 70 mph train. I am suggesting 150 mph that runs in most Europe. What is holding US back in public transport?

> What is holding US back in public transport?

Various things, surely, but things like property rights and an unwillingness to accept wholesale use of eminent domain. A 150mph train requires shallow curves and therefore won't run on an existing freight right-of-way. If not for that, it would be pretty straightforward to build.

Meanwhile, a plane ride from Portland to Seattle is 30 minutes and cheaper anyway. There's no incentive to invest in high speed rail.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#128

Post by supernova87a » Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 11:27 PM UTC

sgustard wrote: post #120

wpdev_63 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem with the US interstate train system is that it's run on freight train lines. Amtrak and Acela do not actually own the railway they use and they can only go a certain speed due to the grade of the track. I don't think you would be willing to pay the amount of taxes you would need to, to completely redo the railways haha. Anyways Amtrak are barely turning a profit as it is and while it would be great t…

The US is willing to run at a $3T deficit so the concept of needing tax money or fiscal viability to build things is tenuous at best. Did taxpayers get slammed when we built the transcontinental RR?

No, but the early railroads of this country were built when there were no property rights of competing owners to defend (or respect), few comparable alternative modes of transportation, and practically no safety or regulatory measures to govern how it was built.

That said, the cost of building things in the US is a major problem.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#129

Post by supernova87a » Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 11:29 PM UTC

tvb12 wrote: post #98

wpdev_63 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem with the US interstate train system is that it's run on freight train lines. Amtrak and Acela do not actually own the railway they use and they can only go a certain speed due to the grade of the track. I don't think you would be willing to pay the amount of taxes you would need to, to completely redo the railways haha. Anyways Amtrak are barely turning a profit as it is and while it would be great t…

I'll probably always take the train into Boston. Even though it's a little more expensive than taking a greyhound or driving (if I can find parking), I don't like to drive in Boston. However, if I needed to go much further I'd be in a bind. The website is really difficult to use at times. I was trying to get to Maryland(?) at one point to buy a used car, but I couldn't find a page that would show me stations near whe…

The UI of the Amtrak fare / ticket finding website is terrible.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#130

Post by tonyarkles » Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 11:29 PM UTC

sgustard wrote: post #120

wpdev_63 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem with the US interstate train system is that it's run on freight train lines. Amtrak and Acela do not actually own the railway they use and they can only go a certain speed due to the grade of the track. I don't think you would be willing to pay the amount of taxes you would need to, to completely redo the railways haha. Anyways Amtrak are barely turning a profit as it is and while it would be great t…

The US is willing to run at a $3T deficit so the concept of needing tax money or fiscal viability to build things is tenuous at best. Did taxpayers get slammed when we built the transcontinental RR?

> Did taxpayers get slammed when we built the transcontinental RR?

Heh, I don't know much about the history of the transcontinental railroad in the US, but up here in Canada it was relatively cheap because... well... to be blunt, we used primarily Chinese labour and did not give a single crap about whether or not they died building it.