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Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

economist.com

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Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#121

Post by mft_ »

wintorez wrote: post #83
ip26 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F1 made 1,500 horsepower thirty five years ago. If such an unrestricted series existed today, we'd probably be looking at 3,000+ horsepower, 300-400mph speeds, and either a) autopilot features (for faster-than-human reactions) or b) absolutely ridiculous levels of fatalities.

If it was up to me, I would create a race where the only limits were: 1) Combustion or electric engines only, no jets or rocket boosters 2) Should fit within a box of certain height-width-depth 3) No human drivers, only remote or AI 4) No type of weapons, or ramming, etc. Only pure speed. I think that would have been an interesting race to watch.

Human drivers provide a lot of human interest for the humans watching...

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#122

Post by WalterBright »

romanoderoma wrote: post #117
WalterBright wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've watched a couple documentaries on Senna. They'd all say Senna just drove faster than the others. Nothing said about just what Senna did to be faster, which was very frustrating. I didn't believe that Senna did anything magical.

He drive differently He used techniques that helped the car to use the maximum possible grip, avoiding sliding or throttle partialisation For example at Monza, in times of manual gear, he could switch from 4th to 5th in between the two turns of Lesmo, nobody else could, it meant gaining a tenth of a second every single lap and the pole position For reference, this is how Senna throttle technique sounded at Monza's pa…

Thank you, that video and the explanations is great.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#123

Post by WalterBright »

olivermarks wrote: post #9

Depends on the motorsport. Take drag racing. top fuel driver after reaction time is mostly along for the ride, depends on quality of engineering to win/lose. Alcohol FC is immensely complicated to drive, also pro stock which is pure driving skill. MotoGP motor cycle racing is highly skilled and is IMO far, far more exciting than Formula One which used to be the fastest/most expensive formula amongst multiple division…

The Lotus 25 is the most beautiful F1 car ever. Love the stinger exhaust!

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#124

Post by axegon_ »

mft_ wrote: post #119
axegon_ wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on the opinion that both Albon and Giovinazzi have a lot of potential but they both face several problems. Albon is in the back seat at Red Bull and he is in the same position as Raikkonen when he was at Ferrari: as far as everyone at Ferrari was concerned, it was 90% Vettel, 10% Raikkonen. In that sense, Albon is pretty much alone. Giovinazzi on the other hand made a very big mistake initially - he had Raikkonen…

Hamilton, the working class boy from Stevenage whose Dad had to work multiple jobs to support him being able to go racing in karts, is the “silver spoon boy”?

As I said, all of them have immense talent, but apart from the Red Bull-Vettel dominance era, Hamilton has always been in the best car and he was initially pushed forward by Ron Dennis of all people. I honestly can't think of anyone in F1 history who can say they were at all times backed up by people like Dennis, Fry, Lacey, Hakkinen, Wolff, Lauda from their first day in F1... No one comes even close to that. He's had it incredibly easy in F1.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#125

Post by joshu »

WalterBright wrote: post #123
olivermarks wrote: post #9

Depends on the motorsport. Take drag racing. top fuel driver after reaction time is mostly along for the ride, depends on quality of engineering to win/lose. Alcohol FC is immensely complicated to drive, also pro stock which is pure driving skill. MotoGP motor cycle racing is highly skilled and is IMO far, far more exciting than Formula One which used to be the fastest/most expensive formula amongst multiple division…

The Lotus 25 is the most beautiful F1 car ever. Love the stinger exhaust!

i have a lotus 23 of the same era. they are wonderful cars. uncomplicated and incredibly good handling feel.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#126

Post by WalterBright »

joshu wrote: post #125
WalterBright wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Lotus 25 is the most beautiful F1 car ever. Love the stinger exhaust!

i have a lotus 23 of the same era. they are wonderful cars. uncomplicated and incredibly good handling feel.

I'm very envious!

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#127

Post by getlawgdon »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #109
barrkel wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The regulations exist both to put a cap on what the teams need to spend on R&D (if it's too much then smaller manufacturers and teams pull out and there's only two or three cars on the grid), and to make it safer for the drivers.

The solution seems simple to me: take the drivers out of the car. Let them operate the cars remotely, then they can get rid of all the safety regulations. It both removes the risk for the driver and makes the sport more exciting to see at the same time.

yuck.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#129

Post by TheGallopedHigh »

WalterBright wrote: post #104
atmosx wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

McLaren’s driver duo in 1990 were Ayrton Senna and Allen Prost. Are you sure the engineers weren’t just petty little creatures trying to get some spotlight? I can assure you that no engineer could win a race against either one. Additionally, Senna has proved that he do “well” with much inferior cars, there must be something going on there as well... As someone who races every now and then for fun, I can assure you th…

I've watched a couple documentaries on Senna. They'd all say Senna just drove faster than the others. Nothing said about just what Senna did to be faster, which was very frustrating. I didn't believe that Senna did anything magical.

This video might help explain specific techniques that he used to be faster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4kcLyYhThE

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#130

Post by exDM69 »

WalterBright wrote: post #103
happyjack wrote: post #82

F1 is an extremely difficult position these days. How can a team(s) increase lap speed YoY, have competitive racing, make money, stay safe, and still have incentives for OEMs to participate? The answer is they can't. At least in the current formula. I think Bernie did a great job running the sport as a dictator, but he set up a house of cards that was doomed. I don't think Chase Carey and Liberty really had a chance.…

I've idly thought that if I was the F1 Czar I'd ban all transistors in the cars, except for in safety equipment. Not even a radio. Have the operation of the car be up to driver skill, not computer programmer virtuosity. (And I'm a programmer!) Of course, it is possible to make mechanical computers, but they are very costly to develop, heavy, take up lots of space, hard to modify, etc. Besides, it's a lost art.

Transistors have been in racing cars since 1967 when the Cosworth DFV engine, with a "transistorized ignition" system, was put to the back of the Lotus 49, driven by Jim Clark and Graham Hill.

Going all mechanical would be going back to an era long gone. It would be difficult to attract funding for a formula racing series (not a spec series) based on obsolete technology.

That said, the early 1960s era of 1.5 liter V8 engines produced some of the most eloquent racing machines ever.

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