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Samsung Ads – Demand-Side Platform

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Re: Samsung Ads – Demand-Side Platform

#121

Post by kevin_nisbet »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #100
manuelabeledo wrote: post #19

I keep seeing people who argue that TVs would be notably "more expensive" if they didn't come with ads. Let's say that the average Samsung TV costs $1,000, ad revenue per person is around $30 a year, and the average lifespan of a TV is 10 years. I own a Samsung TV since 2016. I think they may have pushed 5 firmware updates since then. There is no way I can be convinced that Samsung needs to increase the price of TVs…

I hate (and block) ads everywhere I can, but if we take your numbers as a starting point, doesn't that $30/yr translate to an extra $300 for Samsung in those 10 years, a 30% boost in their income on the sale of your TV? My naive assumption is that they make more money on ads in the short run, which is why they're doing it. But they may (should!) lose money in the long run if competitors can sell ad-free alternatives…

I think one thing to watch out for is revenue vs profits. So while it might be more revenue, the ad system needs infrastructure, developers, troubleshooting, sales department, etc, etc.

So I'd be really curious how this equates to the profit on the TV, and how much those costs can be amortized between the install base vs actual revenue per user.

At previous company (wireless telco), while not the same thing, we had the intercepting DNS that everyone hates, for typo'd queries redirect to our own search page. I asked one time how much we make in the ad revenue on that, and the basic napkin math was that we were probably losing money. Just the amount of time, complaints, maintenance, keeping it running, etc burned hundreds of hours a year. But it was buried in other budgets so the company thought they were making money.

Even then I don't know how they justified it, it was peanuts compared to mainline revenue.

Re: Samsung Ads – Demand-Side Platform

#122

Post by drewg123 »

troydavis wrote: post #75
buro9 wrote: post #72

If you don't like this: 1) Buy an Nvidia Shield, Google Chromecast, or Apple TV 2) Connect that to your TV 3) Factory reset your TV and never connect it to the internet again

This really is the only viable option right now, and specifically only the Apple TV. The Shield and Chromecast are slight improvements, but of the mainstream TV choices, Apple TV is literally the only product that puts your privacy first.

And sadly, you need to trade your freedom for your privacy with AppleTV. I have a shield so that I can sideload apps like NewPipe and Kodi.

I wish AppleTV would allow side-loading apps. That would be the best of both worlds.

Re: Samsung Ads – Demand-Side Platform

#123

Post by GrinningFool »

TomGullen wrote: post #98

Lone voice here I guess - I have a mid/high range Samsung TV and love it. Picture quality is brilliant and it looks good on the wall. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an advert on it from Samsung - where are they appearing exactly? I just switch between terrestrial TV and various apps like Netflix and Amazon on the bottom navigation bar and don’t think I’ve ever seen one. Might be wrong though!

They show for me in the navigation bar. Usually they look like just an icon in the bar for service you might have installed - except you don't.

Re: Samsung Ads – Demand-Side Platform

#124

Post by GrinningFool »

randorandomson wrote: post #8

I used to work in advertising, and it's remarkable how clueless and out the industry is about consumer feedback on this. There's constant back patting without realizing the actual ire shoppers have after spending $2k on a TV and still being sold as a product.

As long as people keep buying it, what incentive to stop doing it?

Re: Samsung Ads – Demand-Side Platform

#125

Post by troydavis »

JaimeThompson wrote: post #115
troydavis wrote: post #34

If you own an Internet-connected TV, you've been seeing these for 2 years or more. I submitted it 11 months ago ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21427405 ) and it wasn't new then. The ACR-based retargeting audiences ( https://www.samsung.com/us/business/samsungads/resources/tv-... ) are probably the most offensive. For example: "Reach viewers who saw your competitor’s ads as quickly as 60 seconds after linear a…

Does an external Roku device collect ACR based data?

You'll see highly targeted ads on all Roku devices -- like based on what you search for and which show/movie listings you view. However, AFAIK ACR is only on when Roku the TV OS. AFAIK, for ACR, it's on when Roku is the TV OS but off when Roku is a standalone device. They don't make that totally clear, though, so you should check the device.

That said, even for standalone devices, there's plenty of other data to target with. You can see the marketer-facing view here: https://advertising.roku.com/, https://advertising.roku.com/advertiser-solutions

On all Roku devices, these are collected and can be used for ad targeting (https://docs.roku.com/published/userprivacypolicy/en/us):

> We receive information about your interactions with the Roku Services, such as your browsing history, search history, search results, audio information when you use voice-enabled features, channels you access (including usage statistics such as what channels you access, the time you access them, and how long you spend viewing them), interactions with content and ads, and settings and preferences.

Like Samsung, TVs running Roku's OS use ACR and target ads based on that data:

> When you use a Roku TV with the Smart TV experience enabled, we use Automatic Content Recognition (“ACR”) technology to receive information about what live television content you watch via the Roku TV’s antenna, and what you watch via devices connected to your Roku TV, including cable and satellite set top boxes. For example, we receive TV viewing information such as the programs, commercials, and channels you view, the date, time and duration of the viewing, and how you use the on-screen TV guide. We receive TV viewing information both when you access live TV directly through your Smart TV’s interface and when you access live TV from within a Third-Party Channel. If the Smart TV experience is enabled on your Roku TV, we will use this information to personalize your TV viewing experience and ads.

Re: Samsung Ads – Demand-Side Platform

#127

Post by mrweasel »

ksec wrote: post #73
ascar wrote: post #13

This should just straight out be forbidden and regulation is the only way out of it. Voting with money is not going to stop this as all major players with high-end devices are pushing this. On top of it, this information is usually a nice surprise after you already bought and setup the device. To even further push the boundaries, they are adding (more) advertising to devices that have been purchased years ago!

I think Apple needs to make a TV set. Only then will the marketing message for TV privacy gets pushed through. But from another angle, I think majority of population would not mind targeted advertising if that means their TV are much cheaper. If we think about it, it is kind of ridiculously cheap you can get a 4K 40" LCD TV delivered to you for under $300.

I don’t think it would matter if Apple made a TV. It has made little difference for phones and computers. No one else cares and Apple just get blamed for reserving privacy for the wealthy.

Re: Samsung Ads – Demand-Side Platform

#128

Post by Phillips126 »

I spent around $1,200 on my 4K HDR Samsung TV a few years ago. It was great, but lately has been unbearably slow and frustrating to the point where we'd stop watching TV in the living room all together. Not a great experience.

To try to remedy the issue (knowing it was slowed down by the disgusting ad platform), I installed a Pi Hole in the house to see if that would alleviate the problem. The TV felt a bit less clunky but Pi Hole seemed to have some issues with some of the installed apps - primarily Hulu, so I needed another solution. The Pi Hole statistics were terrifying at around 12,000 blocked Samsung requests per day (around 6-7 hours of shared TV usage).

I researched Amazon FireSticks, Roku's, etc. I needed something easy for my family and kids to use (they are not as techy) and I wanted an interface that was buttery smooth. While I am very much not an Apple fan, last night I picked up the 4K Apple TV to test and so far it seems to be decent. There are some things I would change with the platform for sure, but it is overall pretty intuitive so my family can just pick up the remote and go.

I factory reset my Samsung TV and completely removed the network from it. It was sad to see how responsive the TV was again after the reset. You can be sure I will not be buying another Samsung TV!

Re: Samsung Ads – Demand-Side Platform

#129

Post by dr_zoidberg »

junon wrote: post #27

I had one of those TVs. The ads show up in the menu bar. I called them and told them I paid over a thousand dollars for this TV and do not want ads. They said they'd be happy to help me disable my internet connection. I was so dumbfounded at the petty response that I simply hung up. Lost a customer for life. I will never again buy a Samsung product.

Last TV I bought the salesperson wanted to push a Samsung TV on me, despite my very clear telling of "I dislike samsung". Guy insisted over and over and over. Ended up in the store opposite the mall, where Good Salesman approaches as I walk in:

-I want a new TV.

-I have this great Samsung model.

-I hate Samsung.

-I have this great LG model!

Funny thing, the that TV came with webOS, which after being bought and sold over a few times, ended up at LG. It works pretty well, never had an issue with it.

Re: Samsung Ads – Demand-Side Platform

#130

Post by troydavis »

stevehawk wrote: post #103
altdatathrow wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ACR sourced data sells like hot cakes in the alternative data world. You can literally know what an individual (“anonymized”) person watches and when.

where/how does one purchase that data?

"The Marketer’s Guide To ACR" has a rundown: https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/the-marketers-g... . Of those who sell the raw data, Inscape (Vizio) and Gracenote (Nielsen) are the largest: https://www.inscape.tv/, https://www.gracenote.com/video/media-recognition/
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