Live data from Hacker News

On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

w3c.studio24.net

121–130 of 208 posts

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#121
post #2

Shameful. As someone that has worked with Craft it has a ton of awful edge cases once you get deep into a project. Craft absolutely does not scale.

The argument put forward by this agency, doesn't actually hold much weight.

Feels more like their choice was made to fit with the agency capability.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#122
post #115

Glad they realized the issues of Wordpress but a shame they went with proprietary nonsense with a faux license. A php based platform has a lot of negatives for scalability. Using a cms to generate static content is much more simple, scalable and cheaper. Keep it simple.

> A php based platform has a lot of negatives for scalability This is an outdated view of how websites are developed today. > Using a cms to generate static content is much more simple, scalable and cheaper. If the market agreed with you, then this would be the dominant method for creating websites today. You aren't smarter than the market. Maybe you aren't looking at the right variables which go into your calculatio…

Static generation is common approach, and has gained a lot of popularity in recent years.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#123

I'm technical director of an agency that builds websites solely in WordPress, and I can say with feeling that Gutenberg has (so far) been a disaster not just in terms of accessibility but in terms of clarity of the development process. It's been a moving target since day one, with us constantly scrambling to keep up with large changes in each release. We held off for a while, and have only built three sites with it,…

Gutenberg shipped way too soon. It has been a textbook case of how not to launch a product. Solid idea...horrendous execution. Mullenweg owes the WP community a massive apology. He especially owes the #a11y Community an apology. Hint: In either case don't hold your breath. But more importantly, it should not be in core. Full stop. Once WP became REST-driven the push should have been to lighten core. That is to decoup…

WordPress has never internalised the ideas of API-first development or the ability to have a lightweight core, and to this day it’s still treated as an addon piece that could someday be removed.

(Source: I wrote the REST API in WordPress and lead the API team for many years.)

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#124

Am I the only one who hates the whole concept of a CMS? I much prefer just working HTML changes into a dev cycle. CMS encourages marketing and sales people to wreak havoc on your web experience. Working in HTML changes into the dev process also helps keep the engineering team aligned with the business/marketing strategy. I use Middleman for generating static html websites and it works great. I would love to see the c…

This isn't a sensible approach.

We need experts to develop products from a code PoV.

We need experts to create content.

Not many content creators are great developers and visa versa.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#125

When working with WordPress, can anyone recommend a trustworthy place to go for plugin recommendations? The problems I find with WordPress are: - WordPress core is missing a ton of stuff you'd expect to be there so you have to turn to plugins. - It's hard to assess the quality of plugins. They conflict with each other, kill page speed, they break as WordPress is upgraded, and there's tons of bad advice you have to na…

> You can get pretty far with just ACF, a contact form plugin, an optimisation plugin (how is page caching still not built into WordPress?), and coding small features into themes directly. This. I work on large, high-traffic WP sites a lot, and we're essentially keeping a hand full of plugins and writing everything else ourselves. Lots of plugins are complicated because they want to enable ordinary users to customize…

Indeed. This is one of the reasons we started maintaining what is essentially a WordPress-for-enterprise distro, with a mix of first- and third-party code. The third-party plugins we bundle with it are from the select few sources we trust to build and maintain quality code (typically our peers).

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#127
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“This post is only visible to RSS feed readers, unless you got here by manually parsing the feed (weirdo) or someone shared the link with you (they probably should not have).” wat

There's a link to the RSS Club in the next sentence. I broke the "second rule of RSS Club", because I feel accessibility advocacy is more important.

RSS-only content to ... make RSS feel exclusive? Ruin their own discoverability? As an RSS user, this seems like a terrible idea.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#128

I'm technical director of an agency that builds websites solely in WordPress, and I can say with feeling that Gutenberg has (so far) been a disaster not just in terms of accessibility but in terms of clarity of the development process. It's been a moving target since day one, with us constantly scrambling to keep up with large changes in each release. We held off for a while, and have only built three sites with it,…

I'm obviously in my own bubble, but I don't understand people complaining about WordPress. WordPress is by far the worst CMS you could possibly use, every other single CMS is better in every capacity. Let's go through why - Uses PHP 5 spaghetti code with a handful of garbage event listeners and output buffering - Has no integration with composer at all - Doesn't have any form of content types without plugins - Has no…

Most of this plain isn't true - afraid it does feel very much like a bubble there!

> - Uses PHP 5 spaghetti code with a handful of garbage event listeners and output buffering

I mean it has listeners for almost every event you might want to interupt and trigger something on that are well documented and have been for decades.

The PHP 5 code is very much legacy so I will grant you this.

> - Has no integration with composer at all

Composer support is absolutely fine and there are well maintained ways of keeping plugins and themes under Composer and have been for many years.

> - Doesn't have any form of content types without plugins

Yes, but adding further content types at the level of code or these plugins is easy, trivially so.

> - Has no cache, no theming engine, no multi-language, etc etc

It has several caches that are very powerful indeed, including those included by default. PHP is a theming engine.

Internationalisation built into the core, I'll grant the multi-language support is not as good as it might be. Could be better.

> - Beyond a media library it has literally no aspects of a "content management system"

I mean, people use it to run newspapers, so not sure if this is true. It depends what you need.

The organisations behind WordPress decided to meet their user need and provide a really good, well understood platform for content management with an extensively tested UX experience of end users. They prioritised this over developer niceities.

If the purpose of software is to augment human capacity and be genuinely useful, this was the right decision. The rough edges from a developer experience perspective have been largely smoothed off by a well established ecosystem like Roots.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#129

I'm technical director of an agency that builds websites solely in WordPress, and I can say with feeling that Gutenberg has (so far) been a disaster not just in terms of accessibility but in terms of clarity of the development process. It's been a moving target since day one, with us constantly scrambling to keep up with large changes in each release. We held off for a while, and have only built three sites with it,…

I think the "hard and fast" mode is also making it hard for plugin developers to keep up. Two weeks ago, a conflict was pushing changes to a live site on preview. (Which is absolutely insane to me - I suspect there are users who unknowingly published changes to a live site)

https://www.advancedcustomfields.com/blog/acf-5-9-1-release/

> " Fixed validation bugs One of the major improvements shipped in version 5.9 (PHP validation for the Gutenberg editor) was found to accidentally publish changes when previewing a post. The same bug was also responsible for preventing the Beaver Builder plugin from launching its custom editor – sorry. This bug is now fixed, and previewing content will now work as expected."

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm obviously in my own bubble, but I don't understand people complaining about WordPress. WordPress is by far the worst CMS you could possibly use, every other single CMS is better in every capacity. Let's go through why - Uses PHP 5 spaghetti code with a handful of garbage event listeners and output buffering - Has no integration with composer at all - Doesn't have any form of content types without plugins - Has no…

Most of this plain isn't true - afraid it does feel very much like a bubble there! > - Uses PHP 5 spaghetti code with a handful of garbage event listeners and output buffering I mean it has listeners for almost every event you might want to interupt and trigger something on that are well documented and have been for decades. The PHP 5 code is very much legacy so I will grant you this. > - Has no integration with comp…

> Composer support is absolutely fine and there are well maintained ways of keeping plugins and themes under Composer and have been for many years.

You need to use a third party service or setup.

> Yes, but adding further content types at the level of code or these plugins is easy, trivially so.

Compared to what? Drupal? CraftCMS? Joomla? Where you go to a UI and do it all, versus installing a plugin with it's own quirks or using functions.php which ends up being the last place you want to touch after your done?

> It has several caches that are very powerful indeed, including those included by default. PHP is a theming engine.

No it doesn't, you need a plugin like W3 Total Cache. On their Cache page they tell you to use a plugin. https://wordpress.org/support/article/optimization-caching/

The other caching setups Opcache, Varnish are either integrated in PHP or a completely different service.

PHP is not a theming engine. Blade, twig, etc are theming engines.

> I mean, people use it to run newspapers, so not sure if this is true. It depends what you need.

Newspapers are glorified blogs, so yes that makes sense that they run on WordPress.

But the problem isn't random sites use WordPress, the problem is people build weird monstrosities on top of a really garbage system.

Post reply on HN