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Re: X-COM

#121

Post by eru »

baud147258 wrote: post #117
baq wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

now that you mention it, into the breach is like the essence of x-com tactical phase squeezed out and prepared in a three-michelin-star restaurant.

It's the quality of a three-michelin-star restaurant, but you got the choice between two dishes and only tape water as a drink.

Compare https://epochtimes.today/12-singapore-michelin-star-hawker-s...

Ie we have Michelin starred street food stalls in Singapore.

Very affordable, like Into the Breach, but also limited choice. Many of them don't serve any drinks at all. You get drinks at a different stall.

Re: X-COM

#122

Post by eru »

int_19h wrote: post #98
eru wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please go ahead and play the first Master of Orion. It's by far my favourite of the pair. (Make sure you get the latest community patches.) The genius of the first MoO was that it really paired down the tedious busy work. And the tech system works a charm, it's cleverly randomised in a way that's not really possible with the more prevalent DAG based tech trees.

If you like the first MoO, take a look at Dominus Galaxia.

Slider-based colony management! Looks like they are staying close to the original. Neat.

Re: X-COM

#123

Post by m12k »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #110
neilprosser wrote: post #102

Definitely one of my favourite games growing up (along with Colonization). I'm reminded of one of my best gaming facepalms which occurred playing X-COM. We'd been playing the game for ages and had found it very difficult to kill all the aliens during the ground missions. We'd go round the whole map attempting to find the last remaining aliens before having to give up. It was only when one of us accidentally clicked i…

I will just say - you are not alone with that 'discovery'. And I also loved Colonization - I played like once a year or two until recently - it's really fantastic.

I'm not sure what it is about Colonization, but the mood and atmosphere of it just hit the nail on the head for me, and kept me coming back again and again.

Re: X-COM

#125

Post by eru »

vanderZwan wrote: post #109
eru wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to play the classic X-COM today, make sure to grab the latest community patches. I really liked the old X-COM games and had anticipated that I would not like the reboot very much. However, while I wouldn't want to miss the originals for the reboot, the reboots are done very solidly and in most instances I even find myself agreeing with the streamlining the new authors chose. If you want a tactical squad-l…

> I always felt the serialising that X-COM enforced to be an artificial limitation. I was about to argue that it might have been a technical limitation too, but Dune II, the first real-time strategy game, came out two years before X-COM so technically that can't be quite right. On the other hand, it also requires a certain set of programmer skills and specialized knowledge of how to simulate such systems, and opens u…

Yes, I think it's not so much a programming limitation per se, but a game design limitation. It's a much tougher nut to crack how to present the choices available to the player in a sensible and understandable way.

Notice how Frozen Synapse is otherwise a much simpler game with fewer elements than even just in the tactical mode of the original X-Com.

Re: X-COM

#126

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

nottorp wrote: post #46
sgillen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean Xcom2 or Chimera Squad?

Xcom 2 is a disaster due to the arbitrary time (or turn, for the nitpickers) limits in all missions. If you don't rush via the shortest path or if you do the unthinkable and explore the map a bit you'll run out of time and die. And if you install a mod that removes the turn limits it becomes way too easy because it's balanced for rushing blindly ahead and it's like taking candy from a baby if you have time to scout a…

> Xcom 2 is a disaster due to the arbitrary time (or turn, for the nitpickers) limits in all missions.

You know, I hated it at first too but after a while I really began to appreciate how it changes the way you play the game. So I have to disagree there. Ditto the Alien Rulers.

Re: X-COM

#127

Post by eru »

Paradigma11 wrote: post #93
eru wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to play the classic X-COM today, make sure to grab the latest community patches. I really liked the old X-COM games and had anticipated that I would not like the reboot very much. However, while I wouldn't want to miss the originals for the reboot, the reboots are done very solidly and in most instances I even find myself agreeing with the streamlining the new authors chose. If you want a tactical squad-l…

There was also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Squad_Nemesis which was also simultaneous turn based. I don't like the puzzle aspect of FS since it's deterministic. It is all hard edges, hit or miss. Maybe if I spent more time with it it might me different.

At the core, Frozen Synapse is a sophisticated version of Rock, Paper, Scissors. Yes, once both players made their choices the game plays out deterministically, but basic game theory tells you that randomising your strategy is the way to win.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_(game_theory)#Pure_an... for randomised strategies

Since you don't know exactly what your opponents are planning, you can't solve your turn like a deterministic puzzle.

I do admit there are some puzzle like aspects. Eg I often picked two or three plans that I thought my opponents are likely to choose, and tried to work out a plan of my own that would counter all three of them.

Re: X-COM

#128

Post by marakv2 »

type_enthusiast wrote: post #13
type_enthusiast wrote: post #12

I grew up here :P This was such a passtime for me that 20 years later I remember the randomly-generated names of some individual soldiers who came through for me and turned a battle around when there seemed to be no hope. Siegfried Krause, I applaud your sniper abilities to this day.

It was also interesting from a design perspective; the various parts of the game were all separate executables and I never did figure out how they all interacted (though clearly some people did, as evidenced by the excellent XComUtil which has proved difficult to track down lately!)

Huh that explains it! I realised (somehow) that if I ctrl-q (or alt-f4) in a mission, it kicks you out to the Misson finished with the same results as your last completed mission.

Re: X-COM

#129

Post by nottorp »

eru wrote: post #73
nottorp wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xcom 2 is a disaster due to the arbitrary time (or turn, for the nitpickers) limits in all missions. If you don't rush via the shortest path or if you do the unthinkable and explore the map a bit you'll run out of time and die. And if you install a mod that removes the turn limits it becomes way too easy because it's balanced for rushing blindly ahead and it's like taking candy from a baby if you have time to scout a…

War of the Chosen fleshed out the turn limit mechanics quite a bit and made them more palatable. I understand why they added the turn limits, but I think the execution could have been handled better. 'Invisible Inc.' did a much better job of getting you to hurry up. Another interesting take on the squad level tactical game is Into the Breach. They solve the design problem of getting you to hurry up, by inverting the…

Heh. There's a textbook example on how you put time pressure on the player without something as peasant as turn limits in the original x-com.

Terror missions. Having to save your civilians (and trying to not get overwhelmed by chrysalids that spawn from the corpses) is excellent time pressure. Move or lose.

But whoever designed the "new" x-coms didn't notice that. The days of subtlety are gone.

Btw, the reason overwatch turtling is the preferred strategy in the "new" x-com 1 is because, especially in the beginning, being surprised costs too much. Another way to encourage the player to move faster would have been to give them more recovery options. Or even something as simple as more than two hitpoints for rookies.

Re: X-COM

#130

Post by wcoenen »

chris_st wrote: post #119
kiksy wrote: post #35

A solid article. I'd disagree with the "single play through" and "pointless starting weapons" comments though. For me it was multiple play throughs learning about what worked and what didn't. This for me was actually a thing that kept me coming back. Trying out new tactics, base locations and equipment to see what worked. All the while trying to balance the budget and keep the squad alive long enough to level up. A t…

> and keep the squad alive long enough to level up. "Hey rookie, go look around that corner and see what's there!" was one of my main techniques for keeping the leveled-up guys safe... sorry new guy :-)

And make sure not to give them the good armor, that stuff doesn't come cheap.
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