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John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

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Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#121

Post by Robotbeat »

jmiskovic wrote: post #119
Robotbeat wrote: post #52

It occurs to me that there are a bunch of fairly simple things that could be changed to make wireless headsets more practical for actual work. My smartphone hasn't been working, so I've been using the headset a lot more as a secondary computing device. The keyboard is not nearly as practical as it could be task switching requires quitting out of each application. The pass-through environment is only available in the…

They are working on it, it's just not there yet. Quest 1 has a bit too low resolution for readable text. The hand tracking is fairly recent and not fully integrated. They are inventing pinching keyboards[1]. It's all moving in the direction of AR glasses to fully replace your phone. I think Apple is moving the other way, they will probably drive AR through iPhone. The camera access is a huge privacy issue. I would al…

Yeah, Quest 2 has twice the usable subpixels (50% greater pixels plus a full RGB stripe, better than the pentile of Quest 1), so I suspect text rendering is pretty good.

Yeah, Carmack mentioned some official tracked physical keyboard being announced soon, which is definitely the way to go for useful work. Good tracked keyboard and mouse support plus some decent windowing will make it dramatically better than a cellphone and perhaps even a typical tablet as far as productivity whereas by default (i.e. just controllers or default hand tracking) the Quest 1 is slower for precise input than a smartphone.

I actually don't think it'll replace phones. More likely to replace large laptop displays for on-the-go productivity as resolution approaches retinal quality in the next few years.

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#122

Post by criddell »

paxys wrote: post #96
munificent wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It needs to be a game changer and the future of something or the research funding and developer ecosystem are going to dry up. I hate that we live in a world so dominated by network effects, economies of scale, corporate consolidation, and shareholder value that there are fewer and fewer realms where "small success" still exists.

Small successes haven't gone anywhere. However a system that needs billions of dollars in corporate funding worth of research to come into existence cannot be one by definition.

What makes you think VR headsets take billions of dollars to launch? The first Oculus was a Kickstarter project.

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#123

Post by dougmwne »

jonny_wonny wrote: post #109
chaostheory wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how you equated Carmack speaking about implementation challenges with being "pessimistic about VR". He still seems very gung ho about VR EDIT: if he's moving towards other projects, actions speak louder than words. I didn't get that from his talk, or maybe I just missed it.

Yeah, that dude definitely didn’t comprehend Carmack’s talk very well. Carmack wasn’t in any way pessimistic about VR, he’s just disappointed with the pace that things are moving in. As he said, he always wants things to move faster. But if anything, Carmack expressed overall optimism. He said that we pretty much have everything we need to implement his ideal vision of VR. It’s just a matter of putting all the pieces…

Farther up I detailed the specific things I thought Carmack was most pessimistic on. I clarified that I don't think he's down on VR, just on big hardware gains on mobile in the near future. I took it to mean "Hardware's done. Have at it, devs." And I think that's the reason he's moving on to the next project, since this tech is now in the polishing phase and out of the pioneer phase. I think it's a good thing and a sign of a maturing platform, just like how slowing advances in smartphone hardware marked the begining of their global sales s-curve (LTE retina iphone 4 in 2010).

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#124

Post by timleewards »

dougmwne wrote: post #103
timleewards wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting - i steered away of oculus generally speaking as it was by far the buggiest headset I owned. From what gather tho it can only play low spec games decently. For instance, how does it handle Alyx?

I think it can only play Alyx through the link on PC, unless Valve decides to port it at some point in the future, which seems unlikely since they have their own investments in VR as a platform.

Valve is not able to port it - and likely never will be - simply because as a low end headset, the quest cant handle it. From what i read, oculus link leads to latency and compression quality losses so it cant really he played via cable either.

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#125

Post by timleewards »

chaostheory wrote: post #107
timleewards wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sure hope you want for a pc vr headset and not the oculus quest. HTC Vive Pro and Valve Index are simply stunning and can see them become the future of gaming.

As an owner of both, it's hard to see them as the future because they are not accessible or democratized unlike the Quest product line. Let's start with cost. Both headsets alone run around $1000 - $1200. If you build your VR ready PC, it's about $1500. If you pay Dell or HP, then it costs about $2000. We're already at $2500 minimum and we haven't even added the costs for Vive's wireless option which runs at an extra…

Except for ceiling cabling, which i personally dont need as i usually play seated games, i agree with everything else. What i meant tho (sorry for my phrasing) is that their _specs_ are the future. Less cables is great and indeed oculus is pretty straightforward. So i suppose once they cut the number of cables (or make htc’s wifi addon cheaper), make trackers remotely manageable and drop the price, i would see increased adoption.

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#126

Post by TeMPOraL »

dougmwne wrote: post #98
pavlov wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "..."maybe I'll try VR", and goes into a store to buy... whatever it is, goes home to have a great time with it, and immediately tells their friends." This is definitely a thing that happens with the Oculus Quest already. The hardware is easy to use and the software library is pretty much in place now. A major marketing campaign could make it really take off. I don't have any insight into FB VR's decision to requir…

Yes, really agree with this perspective. Last year Carmack's talk was equally interesting and he stated that they had all the usage data on several different visions of what VR could be (Rift, GearVR, Go, Quest) and that the data showed the Quest had the most engaged users and the product finally showed signs of being sticky. At the time it convinced me not to buy because their v2 was clearly going to get a big inves…

I keep seeing the word "Oasis" being mentioned on the recent Oculus threads. What does it refer to? Some company? Some meme I'm missing?

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#127

Post by dylan-m »

gonehome wrote: post #29

I think his point about latency is a big one. I suspect a lot of the problems with videochat (and VR) has to do with this. Bad latency is frustrating and wears you down, at some point it's not worth attempting to speak up because it's tiring to deal with. In real life communication transitions between people are fast and you can overlap a bit. VR could solve the issue of what people are looking at least which I think…

Spatial audio is also a huge thing for conferences. If you want a good virtual conference experience, you need a hallway track - for the meaningful conversations which happen outside of sessions. And there are some noble attempts but it's really hard to replicate that in a system where everyone is speaking through the same pipe.

So, add a 3d space with spatial audio, and it's natural to form groups. Add really good spatial audio, and the system can handle the different unconscious movements we do to pick up snippets of activity around us and figure out which conversations we want to be closer to. (You still can't replicate the free food, though, so it's probably doomed anyway, but it's worth exploring).

His bit about how you can't really control volume in that kind of experience was really interesting to me.

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#128

Post by gabereiser »

dougmwne wrote: post #20

This talk was such a treat. After all the carefuly crafted hype from Zuck and the gang, Carmack threw huge bucket of cold water on everything. I think it's just wonderful that he's allowed to speak so openly, about the things he's proud of, the things he thinks are failures, internal politics, the possibilities for improvement, the real hard physical limits VR is running into, and his growing pessimism for the future…

>I think it’s just so wonderful he’s to speak so openly...

John is known for being completely candid in his talks. It comes with the territory. It’s like, you get carmack’s mind, but you also get his mouth... I for one, would accept that. I listened to his quakecon talks about the physics of light many many times. The guy is fascinating how his mind works. But more importantly, he speaks his mind because he has the chops to back it up and ACTUALLY FIX the things he complains about.

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#129

Post by pavlov »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #126
dougmwne wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, really agree with this perspective. Last year Carmack's talk was equally interesting and he stated that they had all the usage data on several different visions of what VR could be (Rift, GearVR, Go, Quest) and that the data showed the Quest had the most engaged users and the product finally showed signs of being sticky. At the time it convinced me not to buy because their v2 was clearly going to get a big inves…

I keep seeing the word "Oasis" being mentioned on the recent Oculus threads. What does it refer to? Some company? Some meme I'm missing?

It's a reference to a VR environment in the sci-fi novel "Ready Player One" by Ernest Cline.

Re: John Carmack’s presentation at Facebook Connect [video]

#130

Post by TeMPOraL »

pavlov wrote: post #129
TeMPOraL wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing the word "Oasis" being mentioned on the recent Oculus threads. What does it refer to? Some company? Some meme I'm missing?

It's a reference to a VR environment in the sci-fi novel "Ready Player One" by Ernest Cline.

Thanks! Haven't read the book yet, and forgot the name from the movie.
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