Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern • Hacker News Board

Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern

#121

Post by Robotbeat » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

timvdalen wrote: post #104

Robotbeat wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a shame there isn’t seamless ability to Facetime with Android users like there is to make a voice call or text with them. We (read: tech community and/or society) should fix this. It’d be in society’s interest if a video call between android and Apple was as easy as a voice call is. (and I do think Facetime between Apple users is this easy... I sometimes use Facetime purely because my WiFi is a little better tha…

Isn't Google's Duo available for iOS?

There are countless ways of making it happen by installing apps. And the user experience and integration has improved. But I mean out-of-the-box, universal functionality. So your 94 year old great grandparent can use it without anything.

Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern

#122

Post by boogies » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

The fact that people are being evicted after not using Zoom https://www.fsf.org/bulletin/2020/spring/trial-by-proprietar... is insane.

The industrial revolution and all of its consequences may not have been exclusively a disaster for the human race, and I personally don’t share Bill Joy’s fears of mass extinction https://www.wired.com/2000/04/joy-2/, but proprietary software can cause serious problems for members of the human race and they should have a right to choose not to “use” it. Doesn’t the US Constitution support the Amish’s right to abstain from the power grid, etc.?

The Federal Source Code Policy should revert from requiring 20% of software written with forcibly extracted public money to be free to 100% as it was when open for public comment.

Any software that the public is forced to use, fund, or through network effects promote, the public should be able to audit and control. Windows is explicitly banned from the ISS. The lowly common people down here deserve a fraction of that privilege.

Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern

#123

Post by ssivark » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 7:38 PM UTC

scottlamb wrote: post #91

impendia wrote: post #71

I don't buy it. The same factors that made Zoom easy to adopt, make it equally easy to switch to something else. And "when Zoom goes down, teachers can’t teach"? Come on. I am a college professor. In my class this fall I met my students on Blackboard on Day 1 and Zoom on Day 2. If one of them goes down for the day, we'll switch to the other.

> And "when Zoom goes down, teachers can’t teach"? Come on. I am a college professor. In my class this fall I met my students on Blackboard on Day 1 and Zoom on Day 2. If one of them goes down for the day, we'll switch to the other. I think it's for real. Think about elementary school instead. The kids are just learning to use computers. Their parents may be also, and if not they may be trying to do their own work fr…

Then that would be part of essential learning experience (not being locked in to arbitrary applications) —- as important as reading and math.

If Zoom goes down, so long as there’s some other service, the teacher can send out URLs to the class via emails, and people should be able to get setup quite easily, and help each other out. There will be some corner cases which will involves a bit more of a struggle, but it should be relatively smooth (easier than the first time around).

Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern

#124

Post by gridlockd » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 7:39 PM UTC

EvilPaticus wrote: post #116

forgotmysn wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the kids in elementary schools were born into the digital age. they're digital natives from the get, and are probably more comfortable using digital tools than we are

That seems pretty short-sighted. Sure my 1st grader knows his way around an iPad enough to play games and watch Netflix, that doesn't mean he's going to understand installing new software or what it means when Zoom isn't working and they have to switch to Hangouts. Yeah, he'll come ask me and I'll figure it out quickly, but I've interacted with enough other parents to know that being able to do so isn't commonplace.…

They'll figure it out. People always complain about having to learn something new, but they will learn if they have to.

Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern

#125

Post by mjevans » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

timvdalen wrote: post #104

Robotbeat wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a shame there isn’t seamless ability to Facetime with Android users like there is to make a voice call or text with them. We (read: tech community and/or society) should fix this. It’d be in society’s interest if a video call between android and Apple was as easy as a voice call is. (and I do think Facetime between Apple users is this easy... I sometimes use Facetime purely because my WiFi is a little better tha…

Isn't Google's Duo available for iOS?

It is, and it can work; but it also doesn't typically get the fully blessed experience a first party app does.

Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern

#126

Post by soylentcola » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 7:42 PM UTC

forgotmysn wrote: post #111

scottlamb wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And "when Zoom goes down, teachers can’t teach"? Come on. I am a college professor. In my class this fall I met my students on Blackboard on Day 1 and Zoom on Day 2. If one of them goes down for the day, we'll switch to the other. I think it's for real. Think about elementary school instead. The kids are just learning to use computers. Their parents may be also, and if not they may be trying to do their own work fr…

the kids in elementary schools were born into the digital age. they're digital natives from the get, and are probably more comfortable using digital tools than we are

They also expect everything to "just work" with a nice interface and preferably without any pesky settings or menus to mess with. I mainly deal with grad students and some of the things I need to walk faculty and students through (anything beyond clicking/tapping an icon in Windows or MacOS) can be a bit shocking.

It's not all of them, and it may not even be most of them...but it's enough that I spend a decent amount of time handling it. Of course that's part of why I get paid so I'm not really complaining--more just surprised at times.

Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern

#127

Post by Spivak » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 7:43 PM UTC

save_ferris wrote: post #62

boogies wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Zoom fails at being a product, people will move away. Literally. As in being evicted from their home: https://www.fsf.org/bulletin/2020/spring/trial-by-proprietar...

This is so unbelievably messed up, reminds me of Black Mirror.

I mean are you upset that landlords get a default judgement when tenants fail to be physically present because they don't have a car, good access to public transportation, time to take off work?

In terms of access to the legal system, being able to phone it in at home or get to any public library is actually doing a lot better than the status quo where you have to take off work to appear downtown.

Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern

#128

Post by telesilla » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 7:44 PM UTC

EvilPaticus wrote: post #116

forgotmysn wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the kids in elementary schools were born into the digital age. they're digital natives from the get, and are probably more comfortable using digital tools than we are

That seems pretty short-sighted. Sure my 1st grader knows his way around an iPad enough to play games and watch Netflix, that doesn't mean he's going to understand installing new software or what it means when Zoom isn't working and they have to switch to Hangouts. Yeah, he'll come ask me and I'll figure it out quickly, but I've interacted with enough other parents to know that being able to do so isn't commonplace.…

I'm with you. The 4 yr old I am around most knows the computer password and how to jump ads in YouTube and find the videos she wants. It's their native world.

Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern

#129

Post by sukilot » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 7:48 PM UTC

notahacker wrote: post #103

reaperducer wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A six-year-old student is not an employee.

A six year old student also isn't someone who's at risk of losing a business deal because they can't get their IT team to let them install one of the client's suggested alternative webconferencing systems to do the demo at a particular point in time. Of the many potential problems six year olds accessing education primarily through webconferencing may face, I'm not sure inability to choose their own preferred videoco…

Zoom has definitely had more outages this year than most people's home wifi/Internet access.

Re: Zoom is now critical infrastructure – that’s a concern

#130

Post by sukilot » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 7:48 PM UTC

tingletech wrote: post #119

notahacker wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A six year old student also isn't someone who's at risk of losing a business deal because they can't get their IT team to let them install one of the client's suggested alternative webconferencing systems to do the demo at a particular point in time. Of the many potential problems six year olds accessing education primarily through webconferencing may face, I'm not sure inability to choose their own preferred videoco…

I think the discussion is "what happens when zoom goes down?" -- and the college professor said "use blackboard". A first grader with a locked down computer set up for zoom won't be able to install blackboard.

Install? It's a website.