Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences • Hacker News Board

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#121

Post by crmrc114 » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 8:21 PM UTC

boublepop wrote: post #120

crmrc114 wrote: post #14

So, per this page: "The study followed them over the next 2.5 years, bringing them into the lab at 18 months and 3.5 years. At the 18-month and 3.5-year visits, toddlers took part in a computer task in which they were trained to search for a red apple amongst a varying number of either blue apples (easy search), or blue apples and red apple slices (difficult search). An eye tracker monitored their gaze and visually r…

Sooo you’re telling me that if I give my toddler a pain brush he’ll be the next davinci? Could you follow up with some more specific direction? I mean if I want to raise a pop-star does the microphone need to be plugged in or does using it like a lightsaber also get them closer to the target? Sorry for being silly in my reply, but the reason we have studies confirming simple “obvious” to you correlations is that we c…

Thats a black or white fallacy: I think carried to the extreme it would be like me making the claim that kids who use tablets will become software engineers. My argument, is that screen time makes kids better at interacting with screens.

For clarity to your point; I think it would be hard to argue that among kids tested playing piano that those who had an interest and practiced more would sound better statistically. Your toddler may not be davinvi, but they should end up with better fine motor control and maybe learn to enjoy expressing themselves in that medium.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#122

Post by giomasce » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 8:32 PM UTC

dx87 wrote: post #31

lordnacho wrote: post #17

One interesting thing I noticed is my kids who have grown up with touchscreens think that everything is a touchscreen. One of them even tried to swipe one of those adverts that's made of a big flatscreen. What confuses them is that some flatscreens aren't touchscreens, eg my macbook, while most of the smaller screens like phones and tablets are. Overall I'd say it's pretty hard to stay conservative about exposing the…

> One interesting thing I noticed is my kids who have grown up with touchscreens think that everything is a touchscreen I've talked to teachers who said that they've started seeing young children with picture books doing the zoom in/out pinching motion on pages.

I read a book I sometimes feel the need to grep it, just to realize that you cannot grep paper. Apparently I grew up on Linux shells instead of smartphones.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#123

Post by WalterSear » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 9:01 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #65

jdietrich wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Ouch... that's kind of bleakly sad. Early versions of iOS were rife with skeuomorphism. Is it sad that iBooks displayed your books on a wooden shelf and played page-turn animations that look like paper, or is it just an application of existing skills and knowledge to a different technology? Paper books are obsolete. Some people think that they aren't obsolete because they're using tiny low-res monitors or don't know…

Partial damage to a paper book leaves the rest of it functional. Partial damage to a digital book leaves it unable to boot.

Partial damage to a paper book leaves you with a partially damaged book that costs as much time and money as a new one to replace.

Restoring/downloading a new copy of a partial damaged digital book takes less time than it took me to type up this reply.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#124

Post by Spooky23 » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 9:04 PM UTC

mola wrote: post #71

Spooky23 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same sort of stuff was said about the 80s kids in my cohort because we were "latchkey" kids and watching lots of TV. It was bullshit then and bullshit now. I don't put much stock in intelligence assessments. There's no real standards around the exams. My school placed you in cohorts based on IQ, and it was pretty obvious that the scoring system was measuring something other than your innate ability. My dad worked…

You don't know that. The way we think changed a lot in the last 40 years. Researching the causes and dynamics of these changes are very hard to study and even harder to correlate and then much more to prove causation. We basically don't have the scientific means or theory for this type of long term changes. It could very much be that kids that grew on TV have some other thought patterns that caused the reality we liv…

> The way we think changed a lot in the last 40 years.

I doubt it. We reward some behaviors differently in 2020 vs 1980, and have different inputs from an information perspective. But people are wired the same way. The "racist uncle" stereotype of 2020 was "Archie Bunker" in 1980.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#125

Post by watwut » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

orev wrote: post #114

ksdale wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People shake their heads when the kids watch a tablet during breakfast, they'd also shake their heads if the child misbehaved and disrupted their own breakfast. Sometimes there's not a third option. Most parents would be delighted if they could simply ask their children to be well-behaved and eat in a crowded public space.

I don’t think people really shake their heads at kids disrupting meals (unless it’s really egregious). If a kid screams or something, people naturally look, but you don’t know what they’re thinking. They could just be wondering what’s going on, or remembering their life when they had kids that age. You have no idea. Mostly I would think that the parents are doing their best and they have enough to deal with without m…

Oh they do. A lot. And they complain about it on the Internet too, a lot.

But also, as a parent, I am kind of inclined to hear and accept that my kid being noisy or something is sewhat disrupting other tables. In all honesty, sometimes it disrupts me.

I am significantly less inclined to accomodate randoms whose issue is completely made up problem with phone or tablet during hotel breakfast. I do not care at all. I use tablet to make hotel meal pleasant as opposed to disciplinary issue, for me and for people around other tables. These people don't have problem or pain, they are making up problems in their heads.

It is just that part that makes this complain particularly dumb. Of course public situation is when you are much more likely to use phone. And of course in grand scheme of things it does not matter at all. It is one of millions situations you solve in one way or the other, nit exactly queen visit.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#126

Post by subsaharancoder » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:37 PM UTC

elteto wrote: post #97

scaryclam wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen exactly this with some friends and their kids. If they're at a more adult place to eat the kids are allowed to watch cartoons so they don't get bored and start wanting to leave before the meal's even started. The rest of the time they're limited in their screen time, read books with their parents and go out to all sorts of fun places like nature parks etc. It's lazy to judge parents just because you see a 3…

We improved this by always carrying color pens and a minimal playdoh set (couple of colors and tools). First they paint, then they do playdoh, and then, if the meal isn’t over they watch cartoons. We have almost completely eliminated devices with this tactic because by the time they are done with those two the meal is almost over. And if it isn’t then we also sometimes tell them that they must just wait or engage in…

We made the mistake of letting our first born watch Mother goose club on the tablet during meals, the upside is she always at her food but then we realized that absent the tablet she would throw a tantrum and refuse to eat and if we left the house and didn't have the tablet that was another mess. We made the decision to get rid of the tablet as well as any electronic stimuli during meals, food time is food time with conversation. We invested in books, playdoh, puzzles, crafts, bug catching kit etc and 2 kids later we have no complaints.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#127

Post by mleonhard » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:47 PM UTC

ksdale wrote: post #83

finaliteration wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent myself who is guilty of this from time to time, I think it’s easy to judge those moments without seeing the full picture. Nowadays parents are expected to attend to kids basically 24/7 and keep them engaged, etc,. Just because you saw that happen at breakfast doesn’t mean it was happening all day, every day. Maybe they were out visiting museums or nature parks for the rest of the day. There are mornings w…

People shake their heads when the kids watch a tablet during breakfast, they'd also shake their heads if the child misbehaved and disrupted their own breakfast. Sometimes there's not a third option. Most parents would be delighted if they could simply ask their children to be well-behaved and eat in a crowded public space.

A third option is to systematically beat the children whenever they deviate from approved behavior. ("Beat the sin out of them.") The guardians will receive lots of undeserved admiration for their obedient children. The children may suffer from life-long emotional problems.

I do not recommend this option.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#128

Post by jkhdigital » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 12:36 AM UTC

grugagag wrote: post #94

eggy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about both? I have older children 21 and 22, and I have some new ones, ages 1 and 5. I have always done as much as I can with my children. I also have learned to set them up with an activity and let them go at it without my constant supervision. They don't always look for outside answers, but instead figure it out on their own. I was anti-TV and computer with my older children, but I still allowed it, and they ar…

Since you were anti-tv you probably kept an eye on what they were watching. TV or tablets aren’t the concern themselves, but the content pushed on them. I learned quite a bit from TV back in the 90s, luckily back then I didn’t have access to addictive junk.

Yeah this is an important detail that is typically glossed over: the device is just a content delivery platform, and the content is what really matters. As a parent I find that policing content is a much more challenging and stressful task than simply managing screen time.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#129

Post by eggy » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 1:21 AM UTC

jkhdigital wrote: post #128

grugagag wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you were anti-tv you probably kept an eye on what they were watching. TV or tablets aren’t the concern themselves, but the content pushed on them. I learned quite a bit from TV back in the 90s, luckily back then I didn’t have access to addictive junk.

Yeah this is an important detail that is typically glossed over: the device is just a content delivery platform, and the content is what really matters. As a parent I find that policing content is a much more challenging and stressful task than simply managing screen time.

Yes, I curated their content, but I do believe too much of any one thing is bad. We didn't get a phone until I was a 11 or 12, not because of beliefs, but money. I became a real bookworm to the detriment of getting outside and exercising for a few years. I try to mix everything up a bit. I also believe in a diversity of intelligence. Each one of my children has a different angle on intelligence. It's amazing to see the different manifestations even within the same family. I think what we think is good content evolves every 5 to 10 years; a study comes out refuting a solidly held confidence in a technique or manner of raising children. I think if you keep it diverse, and try and challenge yourself, your kids and you gain tremendously.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#130

Post by jbaber » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 2:16 AM UTC

novok wrote: post #109

turtlebits wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that parents are using screen time as a nanny, and are training their kids to rely on them as such. IMO, kids need to be taught self-control and have the ability to entertain themselves before screens are introduced. Toddler age is definitely too early, I am in the opinion that as little as necessary until it starts to be required in school. My 2nd grader knows that screens are useful and has seen limi…

The automated nanny of the past was other kids in the neighbourhood, but due to laws and a culture of helicopter parenting that developed during the 80s/90s, kids are basically forbidden from playing by themselves with local kids unless they are literally next door. Parenting is more work today than it used to be. In the past you sent out your kids to the local neighborhood all day, they came back to fix boo-boos and…

This 1000 times. About half the time we consciously choose to let our 8-year-old just open a car door or walk across a parking lot independently, some adult scurries over and "Hey! Your kid just carefully walked behind this parked car! Lucky I found his."