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Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

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Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#121

Post by giovannibajo1 »

mantap wrote: post #68
TylerE wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies shouldn't be allowed to fire customers that blatantly break rules the customer agreed to?

Usually when you fire a customer they can go to one of your competitors. This just proves Epic's argument. There is no competing App Store on iOS because it's not allowed. If Apple "fires" you then your users can no longer install the app onto their own phones. Imagine if Microsoft "fired" Adobe and as a result nobody could install Photoshop on Windows anymore.

Fortnite is available on several different game consoles and platforms (most of which, by the way, have a 30% commission fee). It used to be the case that it wasn’t available on iOS, and it was a planetary success already. Customers that had a iOS device and absolutely wanted Fortnite had to resort to use another platform, eg. buy a PC or a PlayStation. Now we’re back on the situations where we were before: Fortnite won’t be available on the iOS platform (like it’s not available for others), and customers will have to play it in other platforms.

I’m not sure how this shows a monopoly. On the contrary, I think it will be hard for Epic to prove that Apple has a “monopolistic power” on Fortnite distribution when they got billionaires through it even before it was ported to iOS.

EDIT: downvotes on HN for stating an opinion?

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#122

Post by Despegar »

Wohlf wrote: post #92
coldcode wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I also believe its a lousy case, but that what courts are for, to decide things. But Apple can easily point to all the times Epic agreed to the Agreement (my employer's large legal dept always reads any changes before agreeing), to the agreements Epic is fine with from the console companies paying the same percentage but did not sue, the long history of each and every clause in the agreement in the world of contr…

I believe Epic's entire case revolves around phones being a general computing device, so they'll be using the Microsoft antitrust case law.

>I believe Epic's entire case revolves around phones being a general computing device

Legally this doesn't matter at all. It's just something for people to talk about on Twitter.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#123

Post by pwinnski »

thedz wrote: post #54
Bud wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, there is a very solid basis. Epic has access to Apple's platform and dev tools because it has (or had) an agreement with Apple whereby it paid a percentage of profits earned in exchange for said access. Epic, btw, has the exact same kind of agreement with Sony, Microsoft, and Google, for access to their gaming platforms. All three of those companies are extracting the same 30% fee that Apple is. But…

> Epic, btw, has the exact same kind of agreement with Sony, Microsoft, and Google, for access to their gaming platforms. All three of those companies are extracting the same 30% fee that Apple is. You don't have to agree to Epic's terms to access the platforms from Sony, MS and Google. You do, however, have to agree to Apple's terms to access their Platform.

Epic had to agree to Sony's, Microsoft's, and Google's terms, however, which seems more relevant.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#124

Post by stunt »

Apple should allow alternative app stores. And they aren't going to do that for as long as they can. So, it's good that some customers are publicly complaining.

I don't think they can force Apple to allow alternative payment methods. But, alternative app-store is reasonable.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#125

Post by mdoms »

draw_down wrote: post #9

I don’t have a side in this fight, but I do admire how Epic has clearly planned this out to wring every ounce of publicity and goodwill they can. I don’t find this particular measure (shutting down the accounts) particularly sinister. Epic has made it abundantly clear they don’t like the App Store’s rules and regulations. That’s fine but it means you won’t be selling on the App Store. I see this as Apple taking them…

Cutting off access to Mac tools prevents them from developing for MacOS too, not just App Store. If you're a developer and you don't find this chilling I don't know what to say.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#127

Post by meragrin_ »

pneill wrote: post #69
throwaw4y-plate wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can you be banned from doing business with millions of other people for offending the gatekeeper?

Yup. Exactly. Think of it this way. You manufacture product foo and it's sold to customers via some national store chain. If you anger the owners of the store chain, they can simply refuse to carry your product anymore. This happens all the time. The app store is no different. It's a national chain that Epic sells through and they've poked the bear one too many times. Lucky for Epic that it's privately held. Otherwis…

> The app store is not different.

Really, where can iPhone users go obtain Fortnite from now? What? No place? Not the same.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#128

Post by Konohamaru »

sircastor wrote: post #64

A lot of this feels to me like Rpic thinks they’re a bigger deal than they are. No doubt they make a lot of money, and they’ve made Apple a lot of money. I think though that their attempt to take Apple in the court of Public opinion is going to fall flat, because there are a lot more iOS users than Fortnite on iOS players.

> I think though that their attempt to take Apple in the court of Public opinion is going to fall flat, because there are a lot more iOS users than Fortnite on iOS players.

Good thing it's only the court of public law that counts. And I don't see how the Supreme Court could rule in favor of Apple, Inc when the District Court ruled Microsoft's bundling of IE as breaking US antitrust laws.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#129

Post by objclxt »

ghostpepper wrote: post #71
Razengan wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple needed that 30 percent cut to monitor for fraud and quality or something, going above-and-beyond other payment processors. How much do Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Steam, Gog and etc. take from publishers on their stores?

This is a valid question - if the answer is a fraction of what Apple charges then it strengthens the case against Apple.

It’s the same. Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo all charge 30%.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut...

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#130

Post by LeifCarrotson »

muska3 wrote: post #36

Is it bad that I hope they do kill Epic's account? Epic launches a preconceived plan with media attacks and the most ridiculous 1984 reference that actually doesn't make sense in the current context against Apple. If I'm Apple, even if this is a straight up attack on me, I just follow the rules in my TOS and block them like I do others who don't follow the TOS. If you don't like the TOS, fine you don't have to be on…

Epic is a $17-billion-dollar company fighting Apple, a $1,300 billion dollar company. They're two orders of magnitude larger. If Apple thought that this conflict really risked losing their app store cut they could just buy Epic without worrying much and take 100% of the transactions...
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