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I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

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Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#121

Post by cryptica »

praveen9920 wrote: post #34
blntechie wrote: post #24

I think what the OP went through is pretty much re-zoning of an agricultural land to commercial/industrial land which probably will run into similar roadblocks in Western world too? Of course, not saying it will take this long but have heard about similar bureaucracy. Small town governments in USA at least are very strict with their zoning codes and based on things what I have heard, changing the zone sometimes requi…

It is not just about red tape, it is about corruption. Govt. Employees in India join the Govt job only for "alternative" revenue ( bribes ). This process is usually handled by "agents" who knows how much these govt employees expect and provide "easy" services to whoever wants to get shit done. To take an example a simple thing like driving license takes couple of months to get if one is planning not to involve an age…

>> This process is usually handled by "agents" who knows how much these govt employees expect and provide "easy" services to whoever wants to get shit done

That's probably why some people would block the application and even refuse bribes; they probably already have exclusive deals with agents who pay them regular bribes and will not even bother to risk accepting bribes through unproven channels. They literally monopolized the regulatory pipelines and have setup an entire supply chain around it.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#122

Post by DenisM »

de6u99er wrote: post #105

This sounds worse than Eastern Europe. My wife once had interactions with Polish authorities and the first official told her immediately what amount of bribe money will be necessary to get it done quickly, contrary to everybody involved sitting it out as long as possible. When she asked why the bribe is so high, the government employee explained to her whom of his colleagues he has to pay himself to get it done quick…

> you would have already received your approval if you were willing to pay a bribe

There is a law that prohibits American citizens from bribing foreign officials:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#123

Post by aitchnyu »

rohan_shah wrote: post #54
jacknews wrote: post #51

Try building a factory on farmland in, say UK. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with 'starting a manufacturing unit', but everything to do with completely legitimate government land-use planning / zoning rules, etc, albeit a seemingly inefficient process. The author should have performed due diligence on that process before embarking.

Except the fact that all land in India is a farmland.

To expand, many projects are intentionally or unintentionally running afoul of farmland and water body conservation laws.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#125

Post by ramraj07 »

rohan_shah wrote: post #2

Author of the article here. Do ask me if you have any questions.

Glad you're going through this as an exercise, but my understanding has always been that even for something as simple as getting your name changed, you should just get an "agent" to do all the work for you. As you noted, almost every paper you needed is essentially unnecessary, and all you need to do is make sure that someone in the chain can ignore many of the useless requirements. This also means you probably have to pay the bribes as part of some "package" I suppose.

Is your goal to open a factory, or is it reform? I'm glad if someone's trying to reform all these useless ideas and everything, but it doesn't exactly make sense that you couple basically two fundamentally different problems though. If you honestly want to get into manufacturing in India with any real practical timelines, you better get used to paying bribes as cost of doing business. If your idea cannot work with the extra cost of 10 MBP level bribes, better don't bother at all right?

An anecdote I have of relevance: I used to draft letters for my father in the 90s for his company. Once I mistyped 1997 as 1979 in a letter. The licensing authority fined his company Rs. 3,00,000 for that mistake. That was 10% of his annual revenue back then. That's because he had negotiated with the person a month back to not increase his bribe. And hence the agency used this as leverage to get a higher bribe.

Point is, you are trying to fight such a fundamental force and way of life in India, I will not bet money that you will succeed in this route, though I sincerely wish you would. Even if you do everything right, they will invent a problem because now you've hurt their ego on top of their pocket. Hell, if you actually start succeeding you should probably start worrying about personal safety as well (I would if I were you), because I doubt India is actually developed enough to ignore the worst case scenarios you can imagine in a corrupt society like this.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#126

Post by epx »

DenisM wrote: post #124
epx wrote: post #31

As a famous Brazilian writer said: "Underdevelopment is not improvised; it takes centuries to perfect."

Can't find the quote. Who was the writer?

Nelson Rodrigues. The original in pt_BR is “Subdesenvolvimento não se improvisa; é obra de séculos.”

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#127

Post by epx »

kamaal wrote: post #76
sushshshsh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost as if the process is designed to prevent new competitors from being able to compete ^.^ Now, I wonder who exactly were the people involved who lobbied for and paid money for these things to happen.

>>process is designed to prevent new competitors from being able to compete ^.^ No, the process is designed to limit fraud and prevent fly-by-night companies from squatting resources for the real businesses. One can argue that the government must place trust in citizens, but then in India time and again we see even reasonably sized businesses defaulting on loans, and squatting land resources. You also need a lot of r…

Bureaucracy is a lazy way to do this.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#128

Post by hindsightbias »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #96
acomjean wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Small town governments in USA at least are very strict with their zoning codes Even cities in the US. I live in a "historic District" in cambridge ma in a big ugly brick building with 35 units. 3 of us wanted to change windows, as they're original 1940s and terrible. So we go to get a permit. The permit department sees "exterior change" looks at the address, and sends it to the historical commission. They won't sign…

Cambridge is not representative of reality outside of Cambridge.

Double-paned windows are not allowed in several historic neighborhoods I’ve lived or worked in. Pretty sure they’re banned in much of SF.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#129

Post by IkmoIkmo »

steffan wrote: post #29
gaff33 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think the process would have gone if you agreed to pay bribes?

One thing to note to, is that any American citizen would be unable to set up manufacturing this way because it is explicitly illegal for U.S. citizens to pay bribes to foreign governments. [Foreign Corrupt Practices Act - FCPA] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/foreign-corrupt-practic... (Although given this account from presumably an Indian citizen, I can't imagine in any way recommending a non-local attempting t…

eh... you make it sound as if it's not explicitly illegal for Indian citizens to bribe other Indians.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#130

Post by shadowprofile77 »

epx wrote: post #126
DenisM wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't find the quote. Who was the writer?

Nelson Rodrigues. The original in pt_BR is “Subdesenvolvimento não se improvisa; é obra de séculos.”

More literal English translation then: Underdevelopment isn't improvised; it's an effort of centuries.
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