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TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

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Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#121

Post by dragonwriter »

patall wrote: post #70

Beside all the political issues, what is Microsoft actually supposedly buying here? The data centre, data and access to it? Because it does not seem to me that they are buying any of the developers, am I right? At least there is no talk about that. How well can you run a platform by buying its software without any of the people that run it, at least from my developer point of view that seems a very strange idea. Basi…

> Because it does not seem to me that they are buying any of the developers, am I right?

If they buy TikTok's operations in the countries or, even just TikTok’s US operations, presumably they'd be acquiring, in either case, the existing US-based business, which (assuming the job listings on their website correspond in the normal way to existing staff) definitely includes developers and other technical staff at the Mountain View, San Francisco, Seattle, and Miami locations, at a minimum.

So, yeah, I think they are getting developers.

Now, do any of those developers work on the core algorithms of interest, or are those just black boxes supplied by ByteDance and shared with Douyin, or if not ByteDance itself some other part of TikTok that wouldn't be acquired? That's another question.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#122

Post by sandworm101 »

patall wrote: post #115
sandworm101 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok users. Microsoft is bidding to purchase Tiktok's user base. Data centers, even engineering talent, is fungible. They are replaceable and therefore have no special value worth haggling over. But attractive young people wanting to dump their lives into a video app for pennies? That is the real asset in this deal.

That part is obvious. Still, you have to be able to run it. If you have hourly outages weeks into taking over because you cannot fix this or that glitch, the nicest user database isn't worth much if users are switching to the next platform. I do not expect much technical depth in an app such as TikTok, nevertheless you will need dozens (and more) of engineers to run it and how do you organize those to a previously un…

Microsoft isn't a new player. We can look to any number of their past acquisitions. How did they handle Skype? how did they handle Minecraft? Tiktok is just a video sharing app. The code doesn't matter. You keep the old office/database spinning until you have written a replacement. Then users are pushed an "update" that moves their profiles to the new app under the new team.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#123

Post by lowdose »

patall wrote: post #115
sandworm101 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok users. Microsoft is bidding to purchase Tiktok's user base. Data centers, even engineering talent, is fungible. They are replaceable and therefore have no special value worth haggling over. But attractive young people wanting to dump their lives into a video app for pennies? That is the real asset in this deal.

That part is obvious. Still, you have to be able to run it. If you have hourly outages weeks into taking over because you cannot fix this or that glitch, the nicest user database isn't worth much if users are switching to the next platform. I do not expect much technical depth in an app such as TikTok, nevertheless you will need dozens (and more) of engineers to run it and how do you organize those to a previously un…

But code in any language can be read by any engineer in the world that is proficient in it. I do not speak or read Chinese but when I pull an interesting looking repo from Github that is Chinese I only have to stroke 3 keys to translate all python comments in the file to English. Works great!

You don't need really need another language when you have a common one in place. Even without code comments you should be able to sniff out the crackpots.

Chinese repos are trending on Github everyday. They do really cool things beyond the cutting edge on every side of our business. From frontend react and vue to shiny ML and backend golang.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#124

Post by jadbox »

addicted wrote: post #47
xvector wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Nice rapidly-growing foreign service you have there. It would be a shame if we called it a ‘national security risk’ and made you sell it to us for pennies on the dime!”

The irony, of course, is that the US is pulling these heavy handed maneuvers at a time when the rest of the world would have gladly done it for the US for free. Half the world is currently pissed with China. India already banned Tik Tok. The US could have used what is left of its diplomatic corps (devastated in the past few years) to encourage other countries such as the NATO nations, 5 eyes countries and other allie…

This is similar to what I was going to post too. Unless there's some kind of 4d chess power games happening behind the scenes, it looks a real gross amount of incompetence in lack of planning, diplomacy, and leadership at all levels of international relationships. More realistically- seems like a meltdown of alliances towards standalone empire-style thinking once again.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#125

Post by stingraycharles »

lowdose wrote: post #123
patall wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That part is obvious. Still, you have to be able to run it. If you have hourly outages weeks into taking over because you cannot fix this or that glitch, the nicest user database isn't worth much if users are switching to the next platform. I do not expect much technical depth in an app such as TikTok, nevertheless you will need dozens (and more) of engineers to run it and how do you organize those to a previously un…

But code in any language can be read by any engineer in the world that is proficient in it. I do not speak or read Chinese but when I pull an interesting looking repo from Github that is Chinese I only have to stroke 3 keys to translate all python comments in the file to English. Works great! You don't need really need another language when you have a common one in place. Even without code comments you should be able…

This is not as much as cultural “translation” of code, it’s about handing over years of knowledge of running a platform. Even if Microsoft was buying some US-based social media company, they would at least want to have access to several engineers to handle the transition and transfer knowledge.

It will be interesting to see how Microsoft handles this, but I can’t believe it will be without access to some TikTok engineers for an extended period of time.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#126

Post by elpool2 »

Drew_ wrote: post #100
frank2 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US president can probably compel Apple and Google to remove Tiktok from their app stores. Tiktok can appeal that action to the US court system and the US legislature, but those appeals would probably go nowhere. So a technically inclined Android user or a user of a jailbroken iOS device can probably continue to use Tiktok, with effort, but will have much fewer people to interact with using the service.

If the president can't compel Apple/Google to install backdoors, he can't compel them to remove TikTok.

He could have the commerce department put TikTok on the Entity List, which would prohibit all US companies from doing business with them. It would be unprecedented though because putting a company on the Entity List is almost always tied to some actual criminal activity like trade violations or espionage (see HuaWei).

So there is away for him to do it, but TikTok could challenge it legally.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#127

Post by puranjay »

jacobush wrote: post #67
owenmarshall wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought this strong arm acquisition was happening because of national security. Are we walking that back to "personal privacy"? When does the US seize Facebook to protect our data and social graphs?

Fair point. The US has already "seized" Facebook because it operates under US oversight. I'm not sure I express myself clearly enough. The US (apparently, de facto) is OK with companies violating all sorts of personal privacy, as long as the US gov has the final say in how the data is used. If a foreign power is doing the same to US citizens, or even non-US citizens, the US is not as OK with it, because it would cede…

But there are countless small and large websites and app that collect private information, perhaps even more egregiously than Facebook because they're not in the limelight.

Why is that not a security risk? If it isn't, what's the minimum number of users you should have before you start becoming a risk?

There have to be some standards and arguments to justify a blanket ban. Just weaving the "national security" wand seems, to me, inconsistent and dictatorial.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#128

Post by edgarvaldes »

jawarner wrote: post #94
dreamcompiler wrote: post #92

I'm no fan of TikTok, but in general the US president doesn't get to tell US companies what to buy, and he doesn't get to tell US persons what internet sites they can or cannot visit. (Yes, I realize it does happen e.g. for gambling sites, but it's generally a game of whack-a-mole for the government because there is no Great Firewall of the US.) If ByteDance just told Trump to go to hell, what specific legal and tech…

Sorry, a GFoUS?

Great Firewall of US, maybe.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#129

Post by ir77 »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #113
ir77 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

with democracy and ability to speak your mind without goverment's persecution everyone is playing on the same field. i'd much rather take democratic china's disdain than dictator's china friendly overtures. you can work towards a long term solution of common understanding under democracy.

If I think a few steps ahead, about the implications so what you say, then this is what I read: Unless the Chinese people overthrow their government, and succesfully install a democratic government, they do not deserve to gain wealth through business with the rest of the world, and do not deserve to live a good life. The chaos and suffering that such a process brings is not important. The unknown chance that a post-o…

china's masses have traded freedom and liberty for wealth and prosperity -- or i should say had them 'exchanged for them by their government'. but make no mistake, that wealth and prosperity is only there for those that support the regime, how are dissidents treated? how are muslims treated?

i don't understand your argument, just because the chinese are wealthy and happy doesn't mean they can't be be shunned for their ideology.

your argument is like the comment i heard when i traveled to chartleston and all the locals still to this day lament the civil war -- the war of northern aggression -- and how prosperous and beautiful life was in charleston [beacause it was all supported at the colossal expense of slavery]. this is your argument for china: ignore the slavery of the mind and actions, look how prosperous they are; well, some of them anyways.

i'm happy to say that i live on the side that won't sell you a seat at the table simply because you've brought a bunch of money with you. that there is some principal reason that goes beyond that.

Re: TikTok and Microsoft’s Clock

#130

Post by lowdose »

stingraycharles wrote: post #125
lowdose wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But code in any language can be read by any engineer in the world that is proficient in it. I do not speak or read Chinese but when I pull an interesting looking repo from Github that is Chinese I only have to stroke 3 keys to translate all python comments in the file to English. Works great! You don't need really need another language when you have a common one in place. Even without code comments you should be able…

This is not as much as cultural “translation” of code, it’s about handing over years of knowledge of running a platform. Even if Microsoft was buying some US-based social media company, they would at least want to have access to several engineers to handle the transition and transfer knowledge. It will be interesting to see how Microsoft handles this, but I can’t believe it will be without access to some TikTok engin…

Isn't Github basically the blueprint for running an infrastructure to manage a full remote coding workspace?

I'm actually surprised the mature way Microsoft handles the Github acquisition. It's not anything like that of what they did with Skype. What you are referring to a managerial nuances on a blueprint like this.

And it is not like Microsoft would have any problem to multiply these engineers salary by 10X because they still would not pay software engineering market rate in Seattle or another hub.

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