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ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

zsa.io

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Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#121

Post by johnm »

steveklabnik wrote: post #29
nwah1 wrote: post #2

Why does it need to contain an actual ARM processor?

Need to? It doesn't. Why might users care? Well, the kinds of people who are into custom keyboards often use custom firmware too... while this keyboard advertises QMK support, if I don't like QMK and want to use something else, which chips are inside matters. Making this even more concrete, I am in the market for some new keyboards, and at least one of them is one I'd like to write my own firmware for. Rust is far mo…

Actually, there are people who have already written firmware in Rust for their DIY/kit keyboards. Nothing yet mainstream like QMK. Here's a write up of one of them: https://josh.robsonchase.com/rest-of-the-keyboard/

Meet the Ferris keeb that was just recently developed. Currently built using QMK but will eventually have Rust firmware. https://github.com/pierrechevalier83/ferris

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#122

Post by ggregoire »

ahelwer wrote: post #17

I've been getting deep into the home office ergonomics hole now that I'll be working from home indefinitely. There's a real danger here - I generally pride myself as someone who is conscientious of consumerist tendencies, but it's become clear that my drive for better ergonomics is no longer about the actual facilitation of work or avoidance of injury. I have spent more time researching ergonomic setups than could ev…

> this next $250 I spend

The price seems irrelevant based on the rest of your post (I mean, assuming spending $250 doesn't put you at financial risks). The only question that you should ask yourself (but I'm sure you already know) is if you need a new and better keyboard or not.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#123

Post by CarVac »

1MachineElf wrote: post #35

Unfortunatley, I believe it's a mistake to move away from the 1.5u outer column used by the ErgoDox, since the pinky is a less accurate finger and benefits from the extra key width. There isn't anything this does that the ErgoDox-EZ doesn't do, besides the adjustable thumb cluster and apparent build quality. I wouldn't call this a next-generation ergonomic keyboard unless it also had integrated pointing device option…

My take after building my own fully-custom board is that the best ergonomics is had by ditching the outer column entirely to completely remove pinky reaching.

The thumb clusters need to be bigger and closer to the alphas so they're more powerful and more easily reached.

My board: https://flic.kr/p/LJdbeC

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#124

Post by johnm »

andrewla wrote: post #52

One thing I have never been able to understand about split keyboard designs is why they don't put the characters on the split ("Y/T G/H V/B/N") on _both_ sides of the keyboard. I mean, are key caps a high cost? There's a correct way to type, but it doesn't need to be so strict. Sometimes (often) the natural use of a keyboard (like holding down a control character for a sequence of keys) makes it so that we type on th…

There's basically two directions that people are going... Splits with lots of keys so you can have keys dedicated to whatever you want or going more and more minimalist.

The minimalism idea is that since these are all programmable, we can design them to require much less finger/hand movement by taking more advantage of layers, various strategies of key activation, key layouts, etc.

There's an active Discord for the whole genre of the smaller, 40% keyboards.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#125

Post by benji-york »

arka2147483647 wrote: post #108

The thing i like best about ZSA, is that they are selling products. Just buy, configure with a nice web tool. No soldering, assembly or programming required to make it work. All other Ergodox, or Ergodox alternatives, seem like much more work to get working the way you want. Anyway, the thumb clusters were my primary annoyance with my Ergodox, so i ordered a Moonlander. I hope it works out.

For another take on thumb clusters, check out the Diverge: https://unikeyboard.io/product/diverge/

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#127

Post by ohazi »

The columnar layout thesis ("your fingers move vertically, not horizontally!") is wrong. Your fingers can move both vertically and horizontally, but moving them vertically requires tensioning and releasing the tendons that travel through the carpal tunnel, while moving them from side to side does not. It's the exact opposite of what you want to be doing if you have wrist RSI.

I got partway through an Ergodox build before realizing this and will probably never use this thing.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#129

Post by steveklabnik »

johnm wrote: post #121
steveklabnik wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Need to? It doesn't. Why might users care? Well, the kinds of people who are into custom keyboards often use custom firmware too... while this keyboard advertises QMK support, if I don't like QMK and want to use something else, which chips are inside matters. Making this even more concrete, I am in the market for some new keyboards, and at least one of them is one I'd like to write my own firmware for. Rust is far mo…

Actually, there are people who have already written firmware in Rust for their DIY/kit keyboards. Nothing yet mainstream like QMK. Here's a write up of one of them: https://josh.robsonchase.com/rest-of-the-keyboard/ Meet the Ferris keeb that was just recently developed. Currently built using QMK but will eventually have Rust firmware. https://github.com/pierrechevalier83/ferris

I know some people have, but part of the fun is doing it yourself :)

There's also https://github.com/TeXitoi/keyberon

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#130

Post by codemac »

tom_ wrote: post #76

I wish people would just copy the MS Natural Ergonomic 4000, but with better keyswitches. As things stand, every split keyboard with nice keyswitches has a different layout from every other, which is odd, considering how much this type of device relies on muscle memory to work. (Also, most of them miss one or more of F keys, symmetrical meta keys, standard navigation cluster layout, volume buttons - it's like they wa…

As someone who uses an advantage kinesis & dvorak, laptops & dvorak, and other people's computers & qwerty:

You get used to switching back and forth in ~2 weeks.

If you spend all your day typing, definitely spend the $ and the time to learn to type on an ergonomic keyboard with good quality switches. I think the kinesis or maltron have the best research on their ergonomics & build quality. I highly recommend them.

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