Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#121

Post by AareyBaba » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 8:52 PM UTC

mikepurvis wrote: post #84

tjoff wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you need to be a competitive dancer then? ;) To get that good you need discipline and dance for years (or just be a natural), so don't seem that far fetched to be at a similar difficulty level as sports in this regard.

You can be a competent partner/social dancer (swing, salsa, tango, waltz) in a few months of weekly instruction and practice (eg, attending dances).

Swing/lindy, west coast swing, waltz maybe. But it takes at least a year to become a good salsa dancer and Argentine tango even longer. The difference in these dances is the level of coupling (no pun intended) between the lead and follower. In Argentine tango both dancers meld into one moving unit and the brain has to learn how to do that.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#122

Post by sacred_numbers » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 8:55 PM UTC

xdavidliu wrote: post #112

hannob wrote: post #50

Looking at this: "Dancing compared to conventional fitness activity led to larger volume increases in more brain areas, including the cingulate cortex, insula, corpus callosum and sensorimotor cortex. Only dancing was associated with an increase in plasma BDNF levels. Regarding cognition, both groups improved in attention and spatial memory, but no significant group differences emerged. The latter finding may indicat…

> The latter finding may indicate that cognitive benefits may develop later and after structural brain changes have taken place." I'm confused by this part. How does the "latter finding" indicate that benefits may develop later? The "latter finding" is that there hasn't been any benefits yet. Does that suggest anything whatsoever about what will happen later?

If something hasn't happened yet it indicates that if it does happen it will happen later. For example, since pigs haven't flown yet, if they do fly, it will have to be later.

Seriously, though, I think the researchers were trying to put a positive spin on a negative result but went too far.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#123

Post by cik2e » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 8:56 PM UTC

cactus2093 wrote: post #65

ninjaturtlez wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously not think that playing a sport requires control of your entire body? Have you ever tried to actively improve at a sport? Everything from basketball to golf is fine muscle control from the lowest to highest levels. Some people cant see their own bias I guess. :)

Looks like you're just as caught up in your own bias as everyone else though :) Not sure why you jumped to the conclusion that someone saying "X is not like playing a sport" is a claim that "sports are trivially easy compared to X". I don't think the parent comment was claiming that at all, just that they're different, namely that dance is not inherently competitive.

It’s pretty obvious that the parent post isn’t saying that dance is different in that it’s not inherently competitive, but rather that sports have to be done at a competitive level to match the physical requirements of dance. And I strongly disagree with that sentiment. My claim is that sports done with deliberate practice aimed at improving technique are just like dance done with deliberate practice aimed at improving technique.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#124

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 9:05 PM UTC

Priem19 wrote: post #13

skookum wrote: post #5

If the postulated basis is correct and acts on a continuum, it wouldn't be a huge leap to think that doing physically challenging outdoor sports that require a high degree of reaction to constantly-changing surroundings would be even better than dancing. Sounds like a case for skiing, mountain biking, climbing, surfing, whitewater kayaking, etc.

“In our view, the more pronounced effects of dancing on the human brain can be explained by the fact that dancing promotes a large number of processes at the same time: spatial orientation, movement coordination, balance, endurance, interaction and communication.” That means I'm golden with skateboarding as well; fantastic.

[deleted]

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#125

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 9:05 PM UTC

Priem19 wrote: post #13

skookum wrote: post #5

If the postulated basis is correct and acts on a continuum, it wouldn't be a huge leap to think that doing physically challenging outdoor sports that require a high degree of reaction to constantly-changing surroundings would be even better than dancing. Sounds like a case for skiing, mountain biking, climbing, surfing, whitewater kayaking, etc.

“In our view, the more pronounced effects of dancing on the human brain can be explained by the fact that dancing promotes a large number of processes at the same time: spatial orientation, movement coordination, balance, endurance, interaction and communication.” That means I'm golden with skateboarding as well; fantastic.

[deleted]

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#126

Post by paulcole » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 9:14 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #16

ByThyGrace wrote: post #15

> An extensive pre/post-assessment was performed on the 38 participants (63–80 y) Mind the n = 38. People already taking the title at face value in this thread.

I thought the "low sample size, checkmate!" without any other analysis was limited to Reddit dilettantes.

Canceled out by the blind acceptance of the headline without reading the article here on HN.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#127

Post by TulliusCicero » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 9:16 PM UTC

Really cool. Would love to see this done with Beat Saber or some similar game (e.g. DDR).

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#128

Post by thesz » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

idclip wrote: post #36

skookum wrote: post #5

If the postulated basis is correct and acts on a continuum, it wouldn't be a huge leap to think that doing physically challenging outdoor sports that require a high degree of reaction to constantly-changing surroundings would be even better than dancing. Sounds like a case for skiing, mountain biking, climbing, surfing, whitewater kayaking, etc.

I would disagree, dance requires an intimate letting go, while sports is a more mechanical shutting down. Dance is a sort of trance, and requires alot of letting go. Sports has a goal, has focus, its very “in the head” (exceptions do exist ala japanese arts, martial arts comes close but not as it is largely implemented in the west.) Not saying no brain plasticity work takes place, but dance has an active emotional el…

https://books.google.ru/books?id=V8_Saizq_88C&pg=PA119&lpg=P...

"...Pele had scored an unbelievable six goals while in a kind of trance-like state..."

Pele often played in trance-like state, feeling he can get through his opponents.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#129

Post by nickjj » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 9:18 PM UTC

codr7 wrote: post #71

mtalantikite wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely agree. Before everything shut down I used to practice yoga at a school here in Brooklyn that was very physically demanding and attracted a lot of more advanced practitioners. Most of the advanced students had long histories with dance or martial arts (or both). All of these arts teach increased awareness both physically and mentally, challenges your proprioception, and surprises the body with creative move…

I'm far from objective, having practiced and taught Wing Chun for more than 25 years; but from the martial arts I've been in contact with, WC excels at teaching physical and emotional awareness. Cuts both ways, I've been looking for oppurtunities to teach but people are so nervous and spinning now that it's mostly impossible to reach through.

I didn't read the paper in depth. Is the benefit of dancing from having to remember a series of steps in addition to being physically active?

Just asking because a lot of martial arts forms require remembering dozens or even hundreds of specific movements in a specific order.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#130

Post by thesz » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

It's interesting how they matched the intensity.

Because, in my opinion, dance is a sorta-kinda-like strength endurance training when you exert a modest loaded movement (say, 40%-50% of your bench press' 1RM) for 2-4 repetition and there are tens of these bouts.

In calories spent such resistance exercise may match some endurance exercise but other effects can be dramatically different.

Including, but not limited to, levels and utilization of brain-derived neurotophic factor. While endurance training increase BDNF level long term and modestly, the resistance exercise can effect a sharp 60%-90% increase at the end of training session, then drop to 40% of normal (to the person) level and slow recovery. This indicates overproduction of BDNF and its complete utilization of the body to build neurons everywhere.