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Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#121

Post by tomohawk »

hprotagonist wrote: post #25

My 65 year old parent, an educator in a sunbelt state, told their superintendent that if the distict came back for in person classes too early, they would walk on the spot. they'll be online-only for at least the fall.

Based on what?

This risk of an adult being infected by a child is almost zero.

https://www.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/blog/hunting-down-covi...

The flu is also deadly for 65 year olds. Will your parent refuse to work during flu season when the risk of getting infected from a child is much, much higher than with covid?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#122

Post by leetrout »

Kapura wrote: post #110
cheerlessbog wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does she work that pays $30k for an experienced teacher? Teacher pay sucks

She's in Colorado. The teachers' union agreed to a pay cut & freeze during the Bush financial crisis; pay had had only started to rise again a few years ago. This is somewhat of a digression, but the extremely low rate of teacher pay (for a job that requires a Master's degree) limits the pool of available teachers greatly. The people taking these jobs typically must have some other way of supporting their family; eit…

> There is no good economic argument made to become an elementary school teacher.

AMEN. I would NEVER recommend ANYONE become a teacher based on my wife's experiences. You used to be able to write off expenses as "non-reimbursed employee expenses" but they cut that out so teachers get the token $200 writeoff. We spend almost 10x that annually supporting her in the classroom.

It really is glorified day care in most peoples minds which is a real shame.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#123

Post by Balgair »

Kapura wrote: post #110
cheerlessbog wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does she work that pays $30k for an experienced teacher? Teacher pay sucks

She's in Colorado. The teachers' union agreed to a pay cut & freeze during the Bush financial crisis; pay had had only started to rise again a few years ago. This is somewhat of a digression, but the extremely low rate of teacher pay (for a job that requires a Master's degree) limits the pool of available teachers greatly. The people taking these jobs typically must have some other way of supporting their family; eit…

To be fair, it varies in CO depending on the district. More Urban places pay a lot more than the state average. Rural areas will try to make up the pay difference with free housing. Private schools will pay ~80k, but the bar is high to get hired (think PhD requirements) and the hours are longer.

But the point stands, the pay is not good at all for the workload. And that was before covid. Aurora public schools have requisitioned two covid-19 tests per month for it's 4k teachers [0]. That's it. They already had high teacher turnover before this mess. Now, I'm afraid that though the schools may be open, they will not be attended.

[0] https://coloradosun.com/2020/07/14/aurora-public-schools-cor...

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#124

Post by leetrout »

hysan wrote: post #117
leetrout wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> poorly ventilated and inadequately sized classroom BINGO. That's what has bothered me the most and I've talked a lot to my wife about what we can do to mitigate the risk. > Neither she nor the children are allowed to wear masks or gloves How is that enforceable? Seems like they shouldn't be allowed to mandate no masks given the documented health risks.

Because if they didn’t, they’d get pushback from teachers unions demanding schools provide masks (and soap, sanitizer, etc.). What most of America does not realize is how little money American schools on average spend on school supplies. Most teachers pay out of pocket for the majority of school supplies (on top of their already low pay). So as with most things that make no sense, it’s enforceable because there are p…

My wife is a teacher so I understand the situation intimately.

I do not see how saying "no one is allowed to wear as mask" as a policy is OK when someone can provider their own PPE.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#125

Post by war1025 »

nsriv wrote: post #95
war1025 wrote: post #56

I believe the old FDR phrase, "There's nothing to fear but fear itself," is becoming more and more accurate with our situation. The risk from this virus goes down dramatically the younger you are. Kids are young. That's obvious. Their parents also tend to be young, at least young enough to not be in the high risk groups. These groups are also accustomed to being sick or dealing with sick people. If there were no vacc…

Yeah, you were saying? https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-c...

I read the article and I don't see how it contradicts my point. Kids are getting sick, as we expected. Soon they will be immune. Then it won't be an issue.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#126

Post by war1025 »

lm28469 wrote: post #97
war1025 wrote: post #56

I believe the old FDR phrase, "There's nothing to fear but fear itself," is becoming more and more accurate with our situation. The risk from this virus goes down dramatically the younger you are. Kids are young. That's obvious. Their parents also tend to be young, at least young enough to not be in the high risk groups. These groups are also accustomed to being sick or dealing with sick people. If there were no vacc…

Or you know, you could deal with the virus like 99% of the other first world countries and be half way through it instead of still not having hit the peak of the epidemic. It's crystal clear that the US is doing something wrong. "it's not that bad", "europe is reopening schools so we should do it too", &c. What kind of mental gymnastic do you have to go through to even write these things... https://i.imgur.com/2Pkl2P…

> It's crystal clear that the US is doing something wrong.

And if that's the reality, then we need to figure out how to move forward from there. We can't go back to March and convince everyone to do a better job of shelter in place.

We followed all the rules in my family. It was, in my opinion, a waste of time. I'm not going to hide in a hole for fear of the damn boogey man for the next three years.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#127

Post by leetrout »

engineer_22 wrote: post #19
leetrout wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nurses also make significantly more than teachers do, as well. North Carolina where my wife is a teacher: Registered Nurse RN Salary $62,560 North Carolina Avg Teacher $37,631 And some other numbers: 2017-18 National Average Starting Teacher Salary: $39,249 U.S. Registered Nurse RN Salary $73,550 U.S. National Average Salary $50,620

Did you intend to compare starting salary to average salary?

Yes! Just wanted the other numbers to compare -- NC is paying less than the national starting salary on average for teachers and less than the national average for nurses. In both cases starting pay and average NC pay are less than the US average salary.

My wife could match her salary working at the local Sheetz gas station which does not require a masters degree AFAIK.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#128

Post by leetrout »

flatline wrote: post #59
leetrout wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong statement: dumb kids are better than dead kids.

I'd say that's a false dichotomy. Lots of kids won't have access to a safe environment during the day without school. There will be no visibility for those suffering abuse. Physical abuse will be worse with a kid at home with an abusive parent all day, under stress. There will be less access to food for many children. The virus holds the potential of devastating effects on school children and their families if kids g…

I 100% support your view IF they get smarter about protecting teachers and staff (masks, at a minimum). I would love to buy my wife a fogger so she could be sure her room was disinfected properly at the end of every day. Of course they are sold out and it's likely someone would complain about that, too.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#129

Post by gremlinsinc »

Kapura wrote: post #110
cheerlessbog wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does she work that pays $30k for an experienced teacher? Teacher pay sucks

She's in Colorado. The teachers' union agreed to a pay cut & freeze during the Bush financial crisis; pay had had only started to rise again a few years ago. This is somewhat of a digression, but the extremely low rate of teacher pay (for a job that requires a Master's degree) limits the pool of available teachers greatly. The people taking these jobs typically must have some other way of supporting their family; eit…

My SIL makes, I'm pretty sure okay/decent pay... (for a teacher) HOWEVER, she loves her job, and her kids (Teaches poor kids from the Indian Res.)... so she spends almost HALF! her paycheck on supplies for her kindergartners. It's almost like it's part job part hobby.

I think that's pathetic that we don't give ALL school's enough money so everyone has everything they need.

Edit: my point being, even if a teacher makes good $$, they can spend quite a bit of it on student's so take home really becomes a LOT less.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#130

Post by ryandrake »

devalgo wrote: post #42
_ea1k wrote: post #6

I feel like there is too much emphasis on these and not enough on the ones that earnestly want to go back to work. There should be a balance here, as we really do need a lot of students to have access to schools in the fall. Remote learning doesn't work for everyone and leaves a lot of people behind. The overall consequences of another lost semester may be far worse than the consequences of reopening.

>may be far worse than the consequences of reopening. Let's be perfectly clear, this isn't something abstract. The consequences are dead kids and dead teachers. Get that through your head. You of course imagine it won't be your kids that die but there's absolutely no reason to think that.

Not to mention dead family members these teachers and kids will bring the disease back to. Maybe it won't get through people's thick skulls until we start making school yearbooks have obituary sections.
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