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The TikTok War

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Re: The TikTok War

#121

Post by scottLobster »

msbarnett wrote: post #78
ardy42 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure I consider Chinese spyware any worse than the US spyware of Facebook, as a resident of neither country. I consider it quite different, because I know I'm more opposed to the ideology of the CCP than I am of the US. The US isn't intractably opposed to liberal democracy, but the CCP is: From the OP: > To that end, this long history looms large in how China thinks about its relationship to the U.S. specifical…

> I consider it quite different, because I know I'm more opposed to the ideology of the CCP than I am of the US. I don’t know that I’m particularly enthused about either country’s ideology, hence my more skeptical view of the idea that any of the major US social media networks are “better”.

Don't need to be enthused to acknowledge one is better than the other. At the end of the day the NSA/facebook is far less likely to use my information to hurt me than the CCP. The only difference is I live in the US, so the CCP doesn't really care and can't really reach me without committing a potential act of war anyway. If I moved to China and maintained my same social media habits I'd be disappeared rather quickly, and possibly organ harvested.

Consider that if you use TikTok anything you post will show up in your dossier should you ever visit China, even as a tourist. And you're giving that info freely, better hope the CCP doesn't decide to use it against you while you're there to make a political statement. They've done and are doing far worse over less.

Re: The TikTok War

#122

Post by chosenbreed37 »

jjuel wrote: post #28

I recently deleted TikTok from my phone. I didn't have it for too long, and until the recent press I had no idea it was a Chinese app. Honestly, I understand companies will mine my data, but I have an issue with those companies being forced to submit my data to the Chinese government on a whim. And it was really all the same thing. People doing the same skits or dances. Most of which were just chicks doing it in biki…

Are you actually concerned that the Chinese government might get access to your data or is it a matter of principle? What do you think they want to do with it? If they really wanted it could they not acquire it by other means? I ask as I'm genuinely curious. I'm considering install it on my phone to try it out and see how it compares to youtube. I'm not dissatisfied with my youtube feed. Just curious as to how much better TikTok would be based on the descriptions on the article and on this thread.

Re: The TikTok War

#123

Post by magicnubs »

analyte123 wrote: post #76
kpennell wrote: post #11

I'm not sure how I got sucked into Tiktok but I was quickly hooked. There's something so refreshingly playful, authentic, and raw about so much Tiktok content compared to Instagram. Instagram (explore/discovery) is generally pretty people with pretty things in pretty places. That was fun for a while but it's just not that interesting after a while. I don't need to see more pretty pictures of women doing yoga. I don't…

Something about Tiktok, whether the algorithm or the sheer volume of content, seems to discourage the sort of look-at-me envy-bait narcissistic posturing that is so common on Instagram. To be popular on Tiktok you actually have to do stuff (even it's fairly banal like dancing or telling stories), not just be (or pretend to be) someone. I found it funny that the author of this post is trying to defend liberal values l…

> Something about Tiktok, whether the algorithm or the sheer volume of content, seems to discourage the sort of look-at-me envy-bait narcissistic posturing that is so common on Instagram.

I haven't used Tiktok, but from what I understand you can only post videos taken using the phone's camera and they can only be edited using whatever filters are available within the app, effectively limiting how manipulated or manufactured the content can be. Sort of like a Snapchat for videos (with the caveat that you can save and post videos at a later time in Tiktok, whereas with Snapchat it's "now or never"). Coupled with not having an associated text component where you can easily post testimonials and links to a site where you're selling a self help book, get rich quick scheme, juice cleanse or gym routine, it should limit how easy it is to use it as a promotion platform.

Re: The TikTok War

#124

Post by WillPostForFood »

skizm wrote: post #114
kpennell wrote: post #11

I'm not sure how I got sucked into Tiktok but I was quickly hooked. There's something so refreshingly playful, authentic, and raw about so much Tiktok content compared to Instagram. Instagram (explore/discovery) is generally pretty people with pretty things in pretty places. That was fun for a while but it's just not that interesting after a while. I don't need to see more pretty pictures of women doing yoga. I don't…

> There's something so refreshingly playful, authentic, and raw about so much Tiktok content compared to Instagram. Isn't that because Tiktock's content is manually curated (for better or worse)?

Is it manually curated? The article talks about how their algorithms are part of their core success.

TouTiao was about the feed and the algorithm from the beginning. The first time a user opened TouTiao, the news might be rather generic, but every scroll, every linger over a story, every click, was fed into a feedback loop that refined what it was the user saw.

Meanwhile all of that data fed back into TouTiao’s larger machine learning processes, which effectively ran billions of A/B tests a day on content of all types, cross-referenced against all of the user data it could collect. Soon the app was indispensable to its users, able to anticipate the news they cared about with nary a friend recommendation in sight.

Re: The TikTok War

#125

Post by azatris »

teekert wrote: post #8
azatris wrote: post #6

I absolutely love using TikTok, but would give it up in a heartbeat for a Western replacement. It has absolutely brought more positivity into my life. I am specifically feeding the algorithm with this intent and I get what I asked for. It is a psychological tool.

All I see is girls putting their phone somewhere, dancing in front of it, then getting back into being absorbed by their phones. Can you describe more specifically what is so positive about it? My kids are about to enter the age at which they get a smartphone and these things make me a bit afraid (like, who's watching? Why do they stare at that app for so long? etc). I don't understand the alure, but I want to keep a…

Since the content is curated strongly by your likes and dislikes, I am afraid your children might actually get some nasty stuff there. There's psychotic horror and soft porn. I don't think I'd trust my child with it unless they're older than 14 or so.

The dancing stuff is pretty mild and I'd say even constructive for children.

The allure, is hard to describe. The content I see is very human, people describing their experiences, doing harmless jokes on each other, or teaching something. How it differs from YouTube is that it is much more strongly tailored to your likes, and due to time constraints, skips the chuff and gets to the meat of things quicker.

Re: The TikTok War

#126

Post by mwcampbell »

addison-lee wrote: post #91
tanilama wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too. I don't have any evidence, but I believe human evaluation in the whole recommendation is the remedy that makes TikTok excels.

Yes, they get rid of content from "ugly, poor or disabled users" so you have an even "better" experience. So not only is it Chinese spyware, it is an awful company too. Source: https://theintercept.com/2020/03/16/tiktok-app-moderators-us...

As one of the replies to your comment suggests, I think this is a problem with photo-based and video-based social media in general. In an all-text environment like HN, each participant is nothing more than their words and the name they choose to post under. Consider that (unless you already looked at my profile), you have now read most of my comment without finding out that I'm legally blind. If I had to post this as a video, it would probably be more apparent.

Re: The TikTok War

#127

Post by dilap »

A popular social-media app not under US govt control is a threat to its ability to propagandize its citizens. So a ban would make sense.

Ah, the land of the free!

Re: The TikTok War

#128

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

kpennell wrote: post #11

I'm not sure how I got sucked into Tiktok but I was quickly hooked. There's something so refreshingly playful, authentic, and raw about so much Tiktok content compared to Instagram. Instagram (explore/discovery) is generally pretty people with pretty things in pretty places. That was fun for a while but it's just not that interesting after a while. I don't need to see more pretty pictures of women doing yoga. I don't…

>Instagram (explore/discovery) is generally pretty people with pretty things in pretty places.

TikTok actively pressured the moderators to filter out 'ugly, poor or disabled'[1].

I haven't used TikTok, but I think such apps of mass appeal at this age of intense screen time competition will resort activities like this; there is no magical reason for TikTok to be better than other limited attention social networks.

Even though I never thought of using TikTok, now as a disabled person I feel morally obliged to not use it.

[1]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/mar/17/tiktok-tr...

Re: The TikTok War

#129

Post by TruthSHIFT »

121789 wrote: post #112
analyte123 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something about Tiktok, whether the algorithm or the sheer volume of content, seems to discourage the sort of look-at-me envy-bait narcissistic posturing that is so common on Instagram. To be popular on Tiktok you actually have to do stuff (even it's fairly banal like dancing or telling stories), not just be (or pretend to be) someone. I found it funny that the author of this post is trying to defend liberal values l…

it's a "superior" product because it's new and not yet commercialized. once it is, you'll get the same sort of gaming (influencer culture, ad placement, etc) that you see in every other social media

How is the product not commercialized? Tik Tok has ads and influencers.

Re: The TikTok War

#130

Post by dna_polymerase »

jes5199 wrote: post #104
mochialex wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

in that case, using Facebook means you’re helping perpetuate white supremacy through the mass incarceration of Black Americans

Yes, and using Instagram supports the droning of hundreds of people every year based on meta-data.
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