Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

ice.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 155 posts

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#121

Post by 0xFFC »

Simulacra wrote: post #105
nine_zeros wrote: post #32

Any prospective international student reading this should REALLY reconsider education in the US. The administration is using everyone as pawns in a massive game of vote pandering. It's hard enough to study hard and achieve goals. Why come here where you will be treated like unwanted foreigners at best and asylees who should be arrested at worst?

International students should simply avoid America all together. There are too many risks, consequences, and pitfalls to make it worth wild.

Sadly I made that decision few years ago and I regret it. I came into Canada, and from what I see, industry and research is not even close to USA.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#122

Post by eiji »

aaomidi wrote: post #101
eiji wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that. And again, this is a policy. You are not thinking this through, in my opinion. Think about this in a way an accountable official would think. Most universities don't know what they will do yet in the fall. If you make an exemption for people who are currently already in the country, what would that solve? It would artificially pick those students over those who happened to travel home for the summer. You…

> Think about this in a way an accountable official would think. No they wouldn't. I've held various (small scale) public facing offices before and this isn't how I would think. Thinking of the consequences of your actions is a very important thing. > If you make an exemption for people who are currently already in the country, what would that solve? Decrease the damage done? > So you have to craft such a "heavy hand…

You are not addressing any of my points with any substance. But you have to resort to cursing twice.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#123

Post by golem14 »

cm2187 wrote: post #120
School-Cotton wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Students on F1 visas are not immigrants, and in general can’t stay after their studies are over (with a limited-time exception via OPT status), unless they get a different type of visa.

All my friends who emigrated to the US did so from an F1 visa (followed by a work visa sometime during their first year of employment). Of course it is a source of immigration.

+1. I believe a lot of (if not most) people come to the US not only for the education system, but to have a good chance of getting the green card and eventually citizenship.

I don't think that's bad for any party - the US gets access to very smart and enterprising young people (and can grow the edu market), and those people get access to the US.

Making studying and converting F1=H1b->green card process harder is going to have significant drawbacks, such as

* shrinking edu market will itself negatively affect the economy. * Now that FAANG etc have seen that work-from-home can really work out, I expect ever more hiring outside of the US in the future. That doesn't mean that jobs will be opening up in the US. * Harder to find qualified people in the US. [Remaining US workers in STEM can anticipate ever higher wages?]

These drawbacks will take some time to materialize, so it's possible to use this argument (less immigration == more work) during campaigning and deal with the fallout later (or pawn it off to the democrats. Or silently walk back the rules after the election).

Maybe one good thing to come out of this change would be the need to press for domestic STEM education more and earlier.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#124

Post by cm2187 »

golem14 wrote: post #123
cm2187 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All my friends who emigrated to the US did so from an F1 visa (followed by a work visa sometime during their first year of employment). Of course it is a source of immigration.

+1. I believe a lot of (if not most) people come to the US not only for the education system, but to have a good chance of getting the green card and eventually citizenship. I don't think that's bad for any party - the US gets access to very smart and enterprising young people (and can grow the edu market), and those people get access to the US. Making studying and converting F1=H1b->green card process harder is goin…

I think the shrinking edu market is going to exit universities that probably didn’t add much value in the first place. So it might not be a bad thing in the end.

And I agree that we need more STEM education though I have my doubts in the capacity of the population to “upgrade” intellectually. Lots of people aren’t STEM material whatever means you mobilise.

Which is why, long term, the immigration of smart and skilled STEM students is a good thing.

But I really see the next 2-3 years as really tough, probably worse than 2008. And I can see why the administration would try to remove any additional pressure on the job market in such exceptional times.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#125

Post by nine_zeros »

0xFFC wrote: post #121
Simulacra wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

International students should simply avoid America all together. There are too many risks, consequences, and pitfalls to make it worth wild.

Sadly I made that decision few years ago and I regret it. I came into Canada, and from what I see, industry and research is not even close to USA.

> Sadly I made that decision few years ago and I regret it. I came into Canada, and from what I see, industry and research is not even close to USA.

All the research and industry in the US is shattered. Even if it isn't, the administration is making sure it won't be accessible to you.

Don't have a view a America with rose tinted eyes. The America of the past is gone, all vanished in the last 4 years.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#126

Post by esalman »

purple_ferret wrote: post #49

>Nonimmigrant F-1 students attending schools operating under normal in-person classes are bound by existing federal regulations. Eligible F students may take a maximum of one class or three credit hours online. This pretty nuts. From what I understand, even schools that are allowing everyone on campus will have a majority of their classes online or have them be up to the discretion of professors. This may keep the va…

A vast majority of international students already admitted into the fall semester are already looking for alternatives because 1) coronavirus situation in the US and 2) US embassies being shut down in many affected countries.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#127

Post by esalman »

cm2187 wrote: post #54
golem14 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. I wonder what is the rationale for all this. Other than plain old xenophobia. Will this reduce pandemic ? No, it will incentivize colleges to offer in-person classes promoting COVID. Will this reduce students on non-immigration visas ? Not sure it does (students might find in-person classes somewhere). Some students might just say 'fuck it' and study elsewhere. Maybe that's good for them. Will this reduce unem…

Plain old xenophobia? How about double digit unemployment rate? We can debate the means. But I can understand why Trump would want to cut down on immigration. Now a good question is whether there will be unemployment among highly educated people with STEM degrees, who were in hot demand only a few weeks ago, and if not this is counterproductive. But every economic indicator seems to point at a major recession (beyond…

You may not know this, but graduate research assistants make less than what many Americans get in unemployment benefits. You are basically getting cutting-edge research work done by non-immigrants for that money. Do you think it is more beneficial for your country to pay a US citizen for doing nothing?

I am a GRA and I work on translational research in neuroimaging and data science. With my career prospects dwindling, I'm considering leaving US if the president gets reelected.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#128

Post by unishark »

Balgair wrote: post #79
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Campuses are going to be closed in the Fall. Nobody is going to have access to those things.

I know a few grad students at 'closed' campuses currently. Though the admin says the labs are off limits, the PIs are turning blind eyes to it. The labs are effectively open.

At the school where I work, they disabled key card access for everyone campuswide. You need to special permission to have them unlock it for a limited time period to get in.

Of course a few old buildings still use regular keys so people can sneak in potentially.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#129

Post by belltaco »

cm2187 wrote: post #54
golem14 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. I wonder what is the rationale for all this. Other than plain old xenophobia. Will this reduce pandemic ? No, it will incentivize colleges to offer in-person classes promoting COVID. Will this reduce students on non-immigration visas ? Not sure it does (students might find in-person classes somewhere). Some students might just say 'fuck it' and study elsewhere. Maybe that's good for them. Will this reduce unem…

Plain old xenophobia? How about double digit unemployment rate? We can debate the means. But I can understand why Trump would want to cut down on immigration. Now a good question is whether there will be unemployment among highly educated people with STEM degrees, who were in hot demand only a few weeks ago, and if not this is counterproductive. But every economic indicator seems to point at a major recession (beyond…

>How about double digit unemployment rate?

How many jobs are going to be lost at universities because of this?

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#130

Post by gene91 »

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #109
usaar333 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China effectively is by limiting flights.

I finally shelled out the $ for the paid version of a flight radar app because I was curious. The friendly skies are mostly empty. 85ish% of all flights in and out of Bay Area is from/to China. I always had the free version but the paid version will ping me every time a flight goes over me(my phone actually) and for a mere $6.99/month, I can find out the air traffic of the area. It’s an affordable hobby for covid. I…

You may be looking at freight flights. There are 8 (4 until recently) pairs of commercial passenger flights between US and mainland China per week. 2 of those starts/ends Bay Area.
Post reply on HN