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Hazard pay in focus as essential workers earn less than the jobless

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121–130 of 348 posts

Re: Hazard pay in focus as essential workers earn less than the jobless

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not perfectly elastic, but they're not inelastic either. As an example, NYC was offering $10k/week for travel nurses. It's clear that pay can drive labor supply, even if it's not perfect.

Did that work? Did they get the nurses they were expecting from that program?

Yes. Travel nursing (high pay, short-term contract) has been a thing for decades.

Re: Hazard pay in focus as essential workers earn less than the jobless

#122
In more normal times, it makes sense that unemployment should not be lucrative, and workers should be encouraged to take any job at all rather than be unemployed. But the calculus changes in a pandemic, because you want people to stay home, even if they have nothing productive to do there. Low-wage work is almost never remote, so a person working a non-essential, low-wage job is likely not providing enough value to offset the harm they do by spreading COVID at their job site or on public transit.

Of course, this is not the function that UI was meant to serve. If it were designed to “compete” with the low-wage job market, it would be paid out even to workers who resign voluntarily or refuse to seek any employment while receiving benefits. But given policy can’t turn on a dime, raising UI is a reasonable way to discourage non-essential work specifically — to the extent work is essential, workers are unlikely to be laid off and made eligible for benefits.

Re: Hazard pay in focus as essential workers earn less than the jobless

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they starving when they’re making more sitting home than they made going to work? Are you implying they were starving before? Are there any starving people in the USA?

If you want statistics on who’s starving in the US look up the counts for free and reduced lunch at schools in the area. They’re typically means tested and free lunch in particular is only granted to kids who otherwise wouldn’t be able to afford the fifty cents a day for reduced price lunch. The USDA sets Income Eligibility Guidelines at the national level for these programs.

New York City has implemented free lunches for all children up to 18, even through the summer. Sometimes means testing cost more than just providing it universally.

Correction - they are providing it for anybody in the city: https://www.schools.nyc.gov/school-life/food/free-meals

Re: Hazard pay in focus as essential workers earn less than the jobless

#125

If you define it as someone getting something while not working vs others getting nothing while working, yes, thank you NPR. That's how unemployment benefits work. That's why government handouts are damaging, especially in the long term. They inherently incentivize not working and punish those who do work. More importantly, government rarely does anything efficiently. I'm gainfully employed and don't need any "help"…

> As much as I appreciate the government giving me back my tax dollars, why did I receive this and not someone who's recently unemployed?

In part because it's intended in part to stimulate the economy, and in part because it was needed without delay; vetting need would've taken months.

Re: Hazard pay in focus as essential workers earn less than the jobless

#126
post #13
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought the point was to keep people home during the pandemic instead of working odd jobs to compensate. Incentivizing people to not work by paying them more to stay at home was a public health policy choice. Of course, the bills were passed really rapidly and maybe weren’t that thought out.

Incentivizing people to stay home was a bug, not a feature. There is absolutely nothing that suggests the federal government is interested in doing this on purpose (and we might see a lot more people outside if the eviction protection measures aren't revisited by the end of the month). Quite the opposite - the message has constantly been that they want to get people out working as soon as possible in deference to "th…

> Incentivizing people to stay home was a bug, not a feature.

> There is absolutely nothing that suggests the federal government is interested in doing this on purpose

These are two separate statements, that do not necessarily correlate.

That the government may not have intended the benefit to incentivize people to stay home (thus improving public health) does not mean that people staying home and improving public health is not a feature for the vast majority of people.

Re: Hazard pay in focus as essential workers earn less than the jobless

#127
post #71
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't printing money when you're short risky economically? My high-school history was a long time ago, but this is what Germany did post-WW1 and it ended in people bartering the family silver for the essentials.

Firstly, it's only somewhat true; look at this graph https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/money-supply-m0 and note that it's not zero indexed. The raw money supply has doubled .. with surprisingly little effect on prices and wages. Secondly, people get confused between extension of credit and money printing. For that you want the separate measure "M2". Thirdly, the real lesson of the hyperinflation crises of Ge…

> with surprisingly little effect on prices and wages.

No one - who's talking at least - seems to understand what's going on with this. It's uncharted territory in a world economic system way more complex than when text books were written.

I have to think fundamental reality must catch up sooner or later, possibly unravelling in a sudden crash.

Then again, I do not understand this!

Re: Hazard pay in focus as essential workers earn less than the jobless

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably would. But solving that problem is significantly harder than putting out loans to large companies that employ thousands of people. If the airline industry collapsed, many other things would've followed. Certain industries are absolutely essential infrastructure to the economy and cataclysmic events can have massive ripple effects.

The loss of jobs and income is going to have cataclysmic cascading effects, worse than if a few large companies had gone under. It hasn't even started yet.

Can you elaborate/link?

Re: Hazard pay in focus as essential workers earn less than the jobless

#129
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our Quantitative easing and corporate bailouts are in the trillions, why would we not pay out significantly less for people who are struggling to find jobs? Why does the till start counting when its normal people affected?

Because bailouts (usually) make the government money in the long run. They're in the form of low-interest loans, they aren't just handing out money to corporations.

Bailouts usually make the government money in the long run if you ignore the costs.

Let's say the market rate for a loan like this is 4% and the government is loaning at .5%. Sure, the government has "made" .5% (less any defaults), but by any realistic understanding of what's going on, they lost 3.5%.

Re: Hazard pay in focus as essential workers earn less than the jobless

#130
post #77

This is an example of how government trying to "work" the economy can upset the tenets of those who believe in a free market; you may choose to look at it with a different lens. The government does not create wealth, or anything for that matter, and in trying to do the apparent right thing to make things better (at least seek favor with their constituents) they wind up unbalancing the system, and IMHO, creating the o…

> Why rush to return to work when you can make more staying at home?

Because unemployment doesn't work that way.

When your boss calls and says "hey, we're ready for you to come back to work", you're no longer eligible for unemployment benefits.

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