Earlier quoted context omitted.
I remember we had a discussion about 10x developers a while ago and how some developers are perceived as moody divas. My guess would be that the 10x-ers have are independent enough from any given employer that they can reject Scrum even if everyone else has to follow it. And later on, their ability to work on their own terms is what then makes them 10x more productive than the poor scrummers.
You just gotta trust that your top guys know what they're doing and let them do it. It's how Lockheed let Kelly Johnson run the Skunkworks however he wanted to. Johnson delivered the impossible again and again, and Lockheed was smart enough to not interfere.
Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?
121–130 of 223 posts
Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
>idea that ideal software development is just a continuous production of small improvements to the code. Many of us do believe this. Absolutely. >It is highly discrete when it comes to output, because it takes time and experimentation to come up with the correct way to approach a problem, but if you do it right, you save yourself an incredible amount of time. But on the flip side, if you get it wrong you waste an inc…
>>idea that ideal software development is just a continuous production of small improvements to the code. >Many of us do believe this. Absolutely. Isn't Jeffries' attempt to do Sudoku with TDD pretty much the prime example that it's not always so? Jeffries tried to write a Sudoku solver by starting from tests and incremental improvement, and got nowhere. Norvig knew about constraint propagation and did it in one go.
Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?
#123What i don’t like most about scrum is the sprints. Doesn’t matter if it’s one or two weeks long, we never have a successful sprint, the velocity chart looks like random numbers, and we spend hours on debating what the story points really mean. Sprints are artificial deadlines that don’t really make any sense, developers don’t care, business people don’t care. A project i could complete in a month will take at least t…
SCRUM highlights project management problems. If everything works its only overflow is a two hours boring retrospective. Morning meetings is 5 minutes maximum (status ok), estimation - about an hour. Last sprint day is a lazy day - no new tasks allowed, refactor what you can, make presentations etc. Never heard of successful one week sprints, two weeks looks optimal. Sprint purpose is to show there is no hidden debt…
Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?
#124The only right way to do 'great engineering' is by not having any middle management. The only right way to do great engineering, is by first asking what we ought to be engineering, not re-implementing the same shit over and over again, like we do web frameworks in every new language. Great engineering is completely unrelated to scrum. It is only in the delusional mind of a middle manager that his existence and though…
You'll have to define middle management, if you're including product management, then your statement would be pretty contradictory. Can't know what you ought to build if to don't know what your customer wants.
Most problems people try to solve using technology/engineering, are actually an attempt to bypass dealing with the real issues, which are almost always political.
One trivial example of this is children starving to death or dying of diseases we have medicine for. I'm sure there'll be another 'app' created for yet another charity or foundation.
Another trivial example of this is all the middle management and technical bullshit mobile development sweatshops go through, hiring separate developers for iOS and Android, getting them to coordinate and sync their work, working out the peculiarities of the two platforms, etc, etc.
All of these problems are solved at the political level of mandating that all mobile platforms have to support a shared set of protocols, libraries and frameworks.
All this 'fin tech' investment bullshit - it's a political problem, not a technical problem.
It's an endless list of insanity - 99% of IT work is useless trash, as are almost all other forms of work done in office buildings. It'd take a trivial amount of investment (less than a trillion) to automate away most office jobs worldwide but we don't do it, because we're stuck with a political decision to continue wage slavery. Again, political problem, not technical.
Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?
#125We use Scrum at work and I have to say, I am pretty annoyed by it. I think it is fundamentally rooted in the idea that ideal software development is just a continuous production of small improvements to the code. And from this come all its micromanagement failure modes (which there are plenty). I think in reality, SW development done right is nothing like that. It is highly discrete when it comes to output, because i…
If somebody complains that Scrum is bad because e.g. every day you have to update management at stand-up (as mentioned in TFA), but the Scrum Guide, every book ever written on scrum, the websites of the Scrum Alliance and scrum.org, and more or less every advocate of scrum great and small, states explicitly that this is not the purpose of the stand-up but instead to highlight obstructions and opportunities for collaboration, then I don't see what more there is to say than "you're doing it wrong" - because you are doing it wrong, in letter and in spirit. It may not be your fault that you're doing it wrong (it's my guess that the widespread perception that scrum is management-heavy is a function of scrum's market penetration combined with the inherently dicatorial culture of corporate governance). But doing it wrong you most certainly are.
This is not one of your complaints of course, but you do complain about estimation, which - as a sibling comment mentions - is simply 'out of scope' for Scrum, which is a smaller package than people think. (Plenty of scrum thought-leadery types are part of the 'No Estimates' thing, for example.) It does, however, mandate that you occasionally meet for the explicit purpose of working out how to improve processes that are not working properly (such as estimation) - in other words, that the team takes seriously as a collective all the things that scrum does not talk about in itself.
Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am definitely a "moody diva", I think because daily standup in particular forces me to admit more failures than I would have to otherwise (you need to fail before you succeed). And it's ultimately pointless and more stressing for everyone, because lot of these failures get resolved the next day. In some sense, standup is a nocebo, a mood killer for me. I am there, in the morning, ready for work, my mind firing up,…
1) Communicating is part of the job 2) Don't think about it in terms of 'failure'. You're just doing work. Sometimes the route is direct, sometimes it's not. 3) 'Time boxing' really has to be done, because products are not made in a vacuum. Time is money and it's a huge constraint. So everything really does have to be boxed up and parameterized by 'time' in the most reasonable means possible that doesn't screw everyt…
Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that Scrum leads to resignation for many people, because it takes away control out of individual and insists on everything being collective. So your personal options to improve or make decision becomes severely limited. Some people like it, because it allowed them to push themselves on the rest of the team. But people who dont thrive in such constant dominance conflict end up resentful and helpless.
what control do you feel is taken away from individuals? I mean, you discuss tickets with the rest of your team, but that doesn't seem such a big loss of freedom.
These days I sometimes decide not to work on the top priority issue right now, because I suspect it'll take a few hours of uninterrupted log file reading / debugging / thinking to fix, but the day already has three different meetings scheduled.
If that's the last issue in the open sprint, choosing to add another issue to the sprint while there's still an open one tends to be a no-go, or at least causes some discussion, especially if the sprint closes without the issue being closed.
Or sometimes I simply I don't feel like working on a particular issue right now. Maybe there's no rational reason for that. I have no problem overriding that impulse if I know somebody else (either a colleague or a customer) is blocked by the issue, but if it's a case of "we have happened to include issue A in the sprint, but not issue B", having to work on A instead of B against my preference causes unnecessary resentment.
Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?
#128We use Scrum at work and I have to say, I am pretty annoyed by it. I think it is fundamentally rooted in the idea that ideal software development is just a continuous production of small improvements to the code. And from this come all its micromanagement failure modes (which there are plenty). I think in reality, SW development done right is nothing like that. It is highly discrete when it comes to output, because i…
Our requirements change, they often change daily, from forces outside of our control. Fickle clients are one thing, but even things as predictable as implementing protocols can be uncertain. Many times you'll design and implement the perfect solution to the problem at hand, and then hit a nasty bug mid way of some tool / lib you're relying on that would make you rethink your whole approach. This can drive you into a rabbit whole in itself. Its always nice to consult with your team at that point to see if its actually worth it.
As far as I understand "Scrum" is just a collection of practices that helps us actually ship something in a reasonable amount of time. Each standup can be a "battle plan meets the enemy" kind of moment. And as we know, "no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy". Yes its uncomfortable sometimes, but it should force us to deal with reality a bit more often and I think that's a good thing.
And scrum and it mutations has survived to this day for a reason. Teams that employ it are much faster to adopt to changing conditions, and thus "outevlove" the competition. I really hope that we can codify a more humane way of dealing with those problems, but at its heart, I think scrum is better suited for software development than its predecessors. We need time (and willingness) to "evolve" it as well.
Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?
#129We use Scrum at work and I have to say, I am pretty annoyed by it. I think it is fundamentally rooted in the idea that ideal software development is just a continuous production of small improvements to the code. And from this come all its micromanagement failure modes (which there are plenty). I think in reality, SW development done right is nothing like that. It is highly discrete when it comes to output, because i…
"Another note on breaking down tasks into chunks"
This is the management trick of "divide and conquer".
But for real good dev, that is not a good development process.
Imagine you are an experienced dev and you need to refactor a 20 files low level code to change the way errors are returned:
If you were in an agile/scrum setup, it would be asked to do that file by file, function by function, problem/code change type by type code change. And possibly not break the rest so that there is something 'runnable' at least every week or some other people can work on another file/function.
But that does not make any sense for a great dev. What you would do if you were experienced is to know the overall direction but rework the code line by line progressively, fixing side things on the way and maybe regularly fixing in other files/functions pattern that are similars. And maybe at some point decide to change again something you did until the point where you achieve your goal.
In my mind, it works more like a path searching algorithm in action.
The scrum concept is probably good for the devops/web script kiddy devs, where you just change hundreds of individual small items without too much interdependance. For example, change the style of button, reorder blocks on a page, change the icons, increase the font size.
Also, something that makes great dev become average is this concept that every dev should be exchangeable and a commodity. Dev become workers on a factory production line where they have no value than to follow process and apply patterns.
They say "what if something happen to your autonomous great dev?" but this argument is not used for the rest of the intellectual society: you don't see 2 doctors at a time, 2 lawyers for your case, 2 CEO in the company, 2 main architects. This thinking is just applied to low level replaceable workers.
Normally, if you lose a great dev and you find another great dev, the new one should be able to understand the problem and the code in a short time and be operational quite fast.
One example we can easily see of efficient dev are the great open source projects. Most of them were not created and led by an army of dev clones but by a few efficient ones: linux, python, php ... In these cases, most of the time we don't consider people to be interchangeable. Some people are keys to topics/code/features and that leads to great dev. But in case of problem, there is almost always someone smart capable to take over after a short time.
Re: Does scrum ruin great engineers or are you doing it wrong?
#130We use Scrum at work and I have to say, I am pretty annoyed by it. I think it is fundamentally rooted in the idea that ideal software development is just a continuous production of small improvements to the code. And from this come all its micromanagement failure modes (which there are plenty). I think in reality, SW development done right is nothing like that. It is highly discrete when it comes to output, because i…
It is really easy to screw. I've seen far to many broken versions. Community building is harder than management. And for management there is no benefit beside budge. So they say SCRUM and change nothing but cosmetics. It sells.