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The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

theatlantic.com

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Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#121

Post by conjecTech »

Scarblac wrote: post #94
turbinerneiter wrote: post #83

Ya'll use University wrong. The classes, etc. ... whatever! During my time at Uni, I: * designed a demonstrator car frame to show off a bunch of new manufacturing techniques, which was actually built in the end * was part of a team who tested a new type of fiber optical vibration sensor on a sounding rocket * worked with a PhD student on developing a sensor to measure water flow through a tank to validate his simulat…

Which university was that?

It's likely the Technical University of Munich based on the hyperloop piece. Though I had to do a double take because it sounded incredibly similar to some of my experiences at Georgia Tech. If you want to know the kinds of universities that do these kinds of things and do them well, its useful to look up some of the student design competitions and see who regularly attends. From recollection, MIT, CMU, Olin, Dolhousie University, Vanderbilt, IIT, RPI, Embry-Riddle, Harvey Mudd are a subset of the places where you can have this kind of experience.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#122

Post by hobofan »

throwlogon wrote: post #100
turbinerneiter wrote: post #83

Ya'll use University wrong. The classes, etc. ... whatever! During my time at Uni, I: * designed a demonstrator car frame to show off a bunch of new manufacturing techniques, which was actually built in the end * was part of a team who tested a new type of fiber optical vibration sensor on a sounding rocket * worked with a PhD student on developing a sensor to measure water flow through a tank to validate his simulat…

For students who arrive at a university without already knowing these opportunities exist, it's not always apparent that they do exist and may be available to them.

Most of those sound like things that would usually be mentioned during Freshman orientation, so even if students don't know about all of them, they should be aware that those kinds of opportunities exist.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#123

Post by pjc50 »

mikece wrote: post #31
dougmwne wrote: post #16

I was having another one of those moments yesterday where I was questioning the value of higher education while reading a HN thread about teaching yourself CS. There was a healthy debate about whether the typical CS curriculum helps a modern software engineer at all. Some thought the degree was stuck back in the 70's. Others thought there was value, but had trouble articulating it. It seems that when the information…

One of the benefits of a college setting would be the gathering together of young intelligent people and exposing them not only to new ideas but how to evaluate, value, and compare ideas for their relative worth. I wonder how much open and free debate of ideas even exists anymore, having given way to the inculcation and indoctrination of "correct ideas." I have long believed that the best way to eradicate racism is t…

> eradicate racism is to allow racists and anti-racists to have open Lincoln-Douglas style debates on college campuses: allow racists to explain their ideas

Allow people to point at one of the nonwhite people in the audience and say, "I don't think this person belongs in the country, who's with me?"

Because that's what it is: for one side, it's a debate with no stakes, but for the other it's their exclusion from the university and all the things that are subject to gatekeeping by getting a degree. Potentially for being allowed to live in peace, or live in the country at all.

Letting that kind of speech be platformed is just a more subtle way of hanging a "whites only" sign on your university.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#124

Post by mixedCase »

carlinmack wrote: post #107
xvedejas wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not necessary to attend university to learn things you didn't know existed, or to learn things that seem less important in the moment. Whenever I've taught myself something out of interest, when I've seriously set aside time to explore a topic, it's not hard at all to expose oneself to many new concepts. This is assuming the field has a wealth of literature to read, and CS is one of those fields. Whether you hav…

maybe so, but there is a certain level of self-discipline and privilege needed to be able to study just from books. Lots of people on CS and other courses want friendly exposure to new ideas, not a recommendation of a list of text books

That's more of a personal thing. It's far easier to me to study a technical book on something I know is useful compared to cramming for exams, doing nonsensical assignments, forcing myself through a specific pace that fits a semester, dealing with professors that never seem to be having a good day, wasting time commuting to the faculty (assuming you don't live in campus), etc. I can do that for money, but having to pay and be less efficient at learning than just googling stuff is what drove me to drop out.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#125

Post by mumblemumble »

> Our industry has been so stable for so long that we’ve conflated our model with our mission.

This had already become apparent to me long before online education took off. Back when I called up the local university to ask if I could enroll in a few classes, a la carte, in order to flesh out my knowledge of some subjects that my alma mater's program didn't cover. They informed me that those classes were considered advanced, and therefore were only offered to students enrolled in the college's degree program.

In other words, the only way they would let me take those one or two classes would be as part of a package deal for earning a second bachelor's degree, majoring in the same area of study as the one I already had.

The only way I can make sense of a policy like that is if you think of the fundamental model of higher education as being essentially unchanged from what it was in the medieval period: A sort of atomic package that's a rite of passage that gains you access to a certain stratum of society as much as it is an education. Under that model, no, maybe it didn't make sense to take just one class, any more than it makes sense to walk into a jeweler's and ask them to chisel a chunk off of a diamond ring and sell it to you. But, nowadays, that way of thinking about education is deeply anachronistic.

And classist, too. Failing to meet the needs of people who can't afford to just drop everything and become a full-time student with anything more helpful than, "Well, maybe you can dig a 500m deep financial hole, jump into it, and we'll meet you at the bottom," is simply a travesty.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#126

Post by pjc50 »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #83

Ya'll use University wrong. The classes, etc. ... whatever! During my time at Uni, I: * designed a demonstrator car frame to show off a bunch of new manufacturing techniques, which was actually built in the end * was part of a team who tested a new type of fiber optical vibration sensor on a sounding rocket * worked with a PhD student on developing a sensor to measure water flow through a tank to validate his simulat…

Yes, and it's this kind of thing that the commercial model of the university and the competitive model work against. When students see it as "I give you money and you give me the piece of paper which lets me into the elite", none of this happens.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#127

Post by dougmwne »

_curious_ wrote: post #113
carlinmack wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe so, but there is a certain level of self-discipline and privilege needed to be able to study just from books. Lots of people on CS and other courses want friendly exposure to new ideas, not a recommendation of a list of text books

Do you view the ability to study and learn from books as a privilege?

Standard teacher education says that each student has a learning style that is most effective for them. https://www.learning-styles-online.com/overview/

A person who learns well from books in a solitary setting is at a huge advantage compared to someone who needs a social-kinesthetic style.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#128

Post by weston »

mikece wrote: post #31
dougmwne wrote: post #16

I was having another one of those moments yesterday where I was questioning the value of higher education while reading a HN thread about teaching yourself CS. There was a healthy debate about whether the typical CS curriculum helps a modern software engineer at all. Some thought the degree was stuck back in the 70's. Others thought there was value, but had trouble articulating it. It seems that when the information…

One of the benefits of a college setting would be the gathering together of young intelligent people and exposing them not only to new ideas but how to evaluate, value, and compare ideas for their relative worth. I wonder how much open and free debate of ideas even exists anymore, having given way to the inculcation and indoctrination of "correct ideas." I have long believed that the best way to eradicate racism is t…

You’re making the incorrect assumption that racists are arguing in good faith and are willing to change their minds after a well thought out intellectual, level-headed discussion. But history has shown us this almost never happens. The majority of them are basing their hatred on emotion and not rationality.

Instead, racists use their platforms to intimidate at-risk minority groups and intimidate them into silence. White supremacists are actively trying to silence those they disagree with, often with violence, not trying to have an intellectually honest and open discussion.

Read about Karl Popper and The Paradox of Tolerance.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#129

Post by CaptArmchair »

AznHisoka wrote: post #103
_curious_ wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could the essence of this comment been captured and communicated without running the risk of coming off as braggadocios?

I didn’t view it as bragging. OP was just throwing out examples on how to best utilize an university.

I don't view it as bragging either. But it's still interesting to see a list of concrete things has achieved, yet only come to the rather vague conclusion that "University where you come together to learn and research".

I think higher education is an opportunity shape a person during a crucial stage of their development as a young adult. It's a time when you get the opportunity to get exposed to many of different ideas, views and beliefs; to learn how to have a healthy debate and formulate a well-founded argument; it's a time to reflect on what you have learned thus far and what you will do with it in the near and far future. It's a time of start off discovering the world away from your parents and your guardians.

To me, that's what higher education is about. It's that phase between adolescence and becoming an independent adult in your own right.

I don't think that's something you can ever acquire by passively consuming content via the Internet. Some of the good and critical things do take time to learn and aren't really quantifiable.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#130

Post by stevefan1999 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #54
stevefan1999 wrote: post #15

I think vocational education could have been better conveyed online, but with perfect pre-recording and editing. Coursera and Edx are a good example for a forerunner though. As a college student myself, this year, this semester is the worst for me -- I felt really lazy without any faith to keep me going, that with face-to-face activity I feel like I'm motivated to engage. But I hope this semester really is the except…

> As a college student myself, this year, this semester is the worst for me -- I felt really lazy without any faith to keep me going, that with face-to-face activity I feel like I'm motivated to engage. The in-person energy of a University environment isn’t given enough credit in these discussions about the relevance of Universities in modern times. Physically going into a building dedicated to education and sitting…

Yes. For online learning, distraction that is easy to reach is a problem.

We can further generalize it to remote working, which surprisingly drew a same parallelism as you described for school/workplace.

> I think there are a lot of intangible or hard to pinpoint aspects of a University education that won’t be replaced any time soon by pure online courses.

I had mixed view on this. I think this is about the matter of authenticity, that whatever you read, taught and trained in school should be reliable, consistent & correct (doesn't mean it is the most up to date, however). It also served as a (referential) benchmark of your most of your skills.

However, at the end of the day this is a matter of the ebb and flow of information -- You see that there are some people that can succeed with limited public information on LeetCode, Codeforces etc., they are truly successful and competitive, but most people also get preference for the background of their school, e.g. CMU, MIT, that they are offered more confidential information (like what type of algorithm question would Microsoft/Google present to you?), more trainings (better understanding/explanation of materials), more networks (alumni), etc. to begin with.

If all of these information and assets are open to public and easily accessible, universities, or perhaps every centralized education facilities will truly met its demise -- their business advantages and potentials are almost totally zero.

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