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Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

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Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#121

Post by LeoPanthera »

evan_ wrote: post #118
rydre wrote: post #22

Boycott WWDC everyone. Trillion Dollar companies don't play by the fair rules. Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google Play's 30% cut. Apple has accused Match, Epic, and Spotify of wanting a 'free ride' while taking one themselves.

or go to WWDC and just make this the topic of every Q&A

"Apple" is not a single monolithic entity. The engineers who will be working their asses off to create and present WWDC have absolutely nothing to do with the business decisions of the App Store. Do not bully them, and do not waste the time of other participants who will have genuine engineering questions.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#122

Post by e12e »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #105
gamblor956 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judicial estoppel is a lot broader than the 3 paragraph Wikipedia page. It applies to the same court case, to separate court cases, and to actions occurring outside of a courtroom that would affect a court case if such actions have the effect of contradicting a legal position a party is taking in court.

But so far, you haven't advanced any theory of how Apple's behavior here ("we use external payment in Google's app store") contradicts any legal position that Apple is taking in any court case. You can't be claiming that Apple takes the legal position that external payment handling is illegal in all app stores?

Apple makes eg: Google music use Apple pay in Apple ios store, taking 30% cut. Apple will kick out Google music from app store for not using Apple pay, giving Apple 30% cut.

Apple circumvents Google pay, and Google 30% cut in Android app store.

Apple thus admits by own action that Apple's enforcement of apple pay and 30% cut is fine for anyone to circumvent, because they do the equivalent thing themselves.

And they should not be allowed to kick anyone out of the ios app store for circumventing Apple pay?

Apologies if I misunderstood your question, but that was my takeaway from this thread?

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#123

Post by GeekyBear »

mkozlows wrote: post #111
GeekyBear wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Obviously if Apple owns one platform, and Google owns the other platform, it is not actually the same situation. Let's look at a situation where Google is seeking to protect it's own cut of the action. >“After 18 months of operating Fortnite on Android outside of the Google Play Store, we’ve come to a basic realization,” reads Epic’s statement. “Google puts software downloadable outside of Google Play at a disadvant…

Apple literally puts technical measures in place to ensure that it's 100% impossible to download outside software.

This has never been a secret.

Google literally spent most of a decade preaching that the "freedom" their platform afforded to sideload software was a major competitive advantage, and then attacked a developer who was making use of that freedom to make a large profit without giving Google a cut.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#124

Post by mortenjorck »

Spivak wrote: post #86
mmastrac wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Walmart isn't the only store to go to in meatspace. If you have an iOS device, you get the Walmart of apps and only the Walmart of apps. This is the problem.

But you're choosing a definition of the world that's too narrow -- "if you've already decided to go to Walmart then Walmart is the only store that can sell at Walmart." Why isn't "the world" the smartphone market where there are plenty of options?

> plenty of options

There are two options, and one of them is provided free of charge by the world's largest advertising company.

The state of the smartphone OS market is so wildly different from the general-merchandise retail market as to render any comparisons meaningless.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#125

Post by zachruss92 »

mmcclure wrote: post #54

It's very relevant to note that Google Play's terms around in-app billing[1] are far more liberal than Apple's. > Developers offering products within a game downloaded on Google Play or providing access to game content must use Google Play In-app Billing as the method of payment. Developers offering products within another category of app downloaded on Google Play must use Google Play In-app Billing as the method of…

First of all, my stance here is that Google is pretty reasonable with their guidelines compared to Apple.

My biggest issue in the iOS vs Android debate is that apple is behaving monopolistically and Google isn't. Using the respective app stores give publishers an inherent audience to distribute/sell content through. I don't think it's unreasonable for Apple/Google to try to profit off of the audience they've built. Where I have an issue is that if you don't want to sell on the Play Store, you don't have to. You can install APKs from anywhere and there are even alternative app stores that are completely within Google's ToS. With Apple, you have to sell on the app store or not at all (I know Enterprise apps exist, but it's not the same).

I think Apple gets away with this because they're not selling digital content, they're selling a service/subscription.

One thing that drives me up a wall about Apple is that you cannot purchase a Kindle book in-app on an iOS device. So if you're in the kindle app and want to buy a book you need to actually go and check out on a web browser (true for both the Amazon app and the Kindle app). On Android, you can do whatever you want.

I'm pretty sure that Apple is going to lose this one. We need an open, fair ecosystem for publishing apps.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#126

Post by gmanley »

gamblor956 wrote: post #70
snowwrestler wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously if Apple owns one platform, and Google owns the other platform, it is not actually the same situation. The law does not require that Google and Apple run their online stores the same way, or that Apple interact with Google's store the same way they choose to run their own store. In fact it's arguable that a free marketplace encourages and depends on different companies taking different approaches to meet cu…

Analogous != same. It means its very similar factually. The law does not require that Google and Apple run their online stores the same way, or that Apple interact with Google's store the same way they choose to run their own store. That's correct. But the law does require them to run the stores in a way that does not violate antitrust laws. Apple is violating antitrust laws by forcing companies to use Apple Pay as a…

> Apple is violating antitrust laws by forcing companies to use Apple Pay as a condition of using the App Store (i.e., leveraging dominant/monopolistic market position in one market in a non-competitive manner over another market).

Can you point me to the specific law they are violating? From my understanding antitrust laws really aren't that clear and it depends on the situation and their control of a market. For example, you need to prove that they have a monopoly that hurts consumers. They may have a monopoly on iPhones but not mobile phones in general. My point is you are saying they have specifically broken the law, but I think that has yet to proven and is certainly not cut and dry until it's in court.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#127

Post by evan_ »

selykg wrote: post #72

I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around why this is such a huge deal to people. Opinions are fine, everyone can have one but I always see Apple's payment options as a massive win as a consumer. 1. Subscriptions are easily monitored from a single page. 2. Before subscriptions renew I get emailed, not all services do this, shame on those that do not and a magic renewal transaction goes through without not…

In the case of Hey they don't want to have ONLY App Store subscriptions, they want to support people who don't use iPhones. That means they'll have to set up a whole extra infrastructure for dealing with app store subscriptions on top of the infrastructure for dealing with their own subscriptions. That's a non-trivial amount of work and ongoing support they didn't want to do.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#128

Post by m-p-3 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #116
mmcclure wrote: post #54

It's very relevant to note that Google Play's terms around in-app billing[1] are far more liberal than Apple's. > Developers offering products within a game downloaded on Google Play or providing access to game content must use Google Play In-app Billing as the method of payment. Developers offering products within another category of app downloaded on Google Play must use Google Play In-app Billing as the method of…

I'm interested in whether allowing Google Play In-app Billing is sufficient to meet the requirements (while also allowing external payment), or if the requirements are supposed to mandate Google Play In-app Billing as the sole possible method of payment. It's not clear from the policy page.

Some apps were temporarily delisted from the Google Play store because they dared adding a donation button that doesn't go through IAPs.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/google-pulls-open-source-android-...

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#129

Post by thaumasiotes »

e12e wrote: post #122
thaumasiotes wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But so far, you haven't advanced any theory of how Apple's behavior here ("we use external payment in Google's app store") contradicts any legal position that Apple is taking in any court case. You can't be claiming that Apple takes the legal position that external payment handling is illegal in all app stores?

Apple makes eg: Google music use Apple pay in Apple ios store, taking 30% cut. Apple will kick out Google music from app store for not using Apple pay, giving Apple 30% cut. Apple circumvents Google pay, and Google 30% cut in Android app store. Apple thus admits by own action that Apple's enforcement of apple pay and 30% cut is fine for anyone to circumvent, because they do the equivalent thing themselves. And they s…

This is so much nonsense. Apple circumvents Google pay pursuant to Google's policies. Apple has different policies in its own app store. So what? Those are not related facts.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#130

Post by google234123 »

jonny_eh wrote: post #98
kevincox wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest this seems perfectly reasonable. I think we should pass on costs to the consumer more often. In North America you can make up to 5% back on purchases by using credit card. This is because the store pays a fee. I don't see why this shouldn't be paid by the consumer. This is effectively overcharging cash customers for the availability of a service that they don't use. I think the long term effects would be…

> I think we should pass on costs to the consumer more often. That's not the insane part. > This is because the store pays a fee Note: It's not 30%

How much do you think stores mark up goods?
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