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Biohacking Lite

karpathy.github.io

121–130 of 370 posts

Re: Biohacking Lite

#121
post #96
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, I agree with a lot of what you're saying here about eating more vegetables and way less sugar being the way to go health-wise, but I do want to respond to some specific things you've said. > You can find really good junk food everywhere, or pay a really high price to eat in high-level Italian restaurants for example, but it is very difficult to eat standard meat-with-vegetable-without-sugar-added, except…

I can eat a spoon of salt, or yeast. It is not particularly good but I know what it is, and I know the toxic dose. I won't eat a spoon of sodium benzoate or E324 or I don't know which food additive, I can't buy it in a food store, it is not "food" by itself. So I don't eat it :-)

Sodium benzoate is limited in concentration by the FDA to about 0.1% (by weight), so there is certainly not a spoon of sodium benzoate in your food.

Re: Biohacking Lite

#122
post #95
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing inherently wrong with "processed" food There's a distinction between processed and ultra-processed (or highly processed). For example, canned fish is processed (added salt and oil), while a frozen TV dinner is ultra-processed (many ingredients added, some of which you probably don't have in your kitchen). Processed food is fine assuming you're aware of what's in it, how it's processed, and make sur…

> There's a distinction between processed and ultra-processed (or highly processed). For example, canned fish is processed (added salt and oil), while a frozen TV dinner is ultra-processed (many ingredients added, some of which you probably don't have in your kitchen). Sure, but OP said ban all processed food. That's what I'm responding to, not "ban all ultra-processed food." That said, I do find your categorization…

I resonate with the way you think.

A lot of non-technical people get hung up on the marketing terms than actually thinking through the fundamentals.

For e.g. "Handspun ice-cream! OMG!". Uhh..what difference does it make if it is hand-spun or machine-spun? It is not tool of spinning ice-cream, but what the process is. To majority of non-techy people, processed or machined or anything to do with automating a method is highly repulsive - thanks to the hipster marketing.

The general take away is - "Automated machines will never replace the touch of the hand"... oh really? then how come we can make insanely precise things called semiconductors in almost a completely automated fashion. Some fabs don't even have operators inside, just technicians or engineers. This is an extreme example just to make a point.

Re: Biohacking Lite

#123
post #51

I'm French (and incidentally a doctor,and my post is not judgemental in any way, this is not the point). Everytime I travel to the USA, I'm puzzled by how difficult it is to "eat normally" (= by my own standards). You can find really good junk food everywhere, or pay a really high price to eat in high-level Italian restaurants for example, but it is very difficult to eat standard meat-with-vegetable-without-sugar-add…

Neither pure white sugar nor vegetable oil occur naturally in the environment. Can't just blame sugar when fat has twice the energy density of sugar and is used abundantly in the processed foods that we like to overeat.

Re: Biohacking Lite

#124
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick remark: Sugar, as other carbohydrates, is cheap . It also tastes well, objectively (as much as taste can be objectively measured). So if you go for industrial-level food production, you end up with a higher proportion of sugar than what would be considered healthy. Sugar per se ist not bad at all (try to have an apple without it ;)). But our economy demands cheap, somewhat tasty, calories. Hence we end up with…

Are croissant expensive, look to be about 50 euro-cents each in France (about the same as UK; hypermarché /supermarket)? That's cheap, right? Bake at home ones are half that. Cheapest "fresh" at Carrefour are 20 euro-cents. https://www.carrefour.fr/s?q=croissant Are village bakeries still a thing in France?

> Are village bakeries still a thing in France?

Very much so. You find bakeries in every village / town, usually less than 15 min walking in any city. I don't know many people in France who buy supermarket croissant (except when you buy very large quantities for groups for example). And it's very common for people to go to their local bakery (small, 2 or 3 employee) to buy bread every two days.

Re: Biohacking Lite

#125
post #51

I'm French (and incidentally a doctor,and my post is not judgemental in any way, this is not the point). Everytime I travel to the USA, I'm puzzled by how difficult it is to "eat normally" (= by my own standards). You can find really good junk food everywhere, or pay a really high price to eat in high-level Italian restaurants for example, but it is very difficult to eat standard meat-with-vegetable-without-sugar-add…

What part of the US were you in? I think your experience will vary widely; in NYC there are healthy meat n veggies fast food places every couple blocks. That being said I think you are accurately describing the majority of the country.

The general jab at the Americans. If I look at Europe food culture with a certain lens, I just see shitty doner kebab places in every corner and turkish grocery/meat stores that smell horrible. Obviously, that lens is cracked, tinted with biases.

Some points are valid though. Honestly, as an American, we've got some awful vegetables and tasteless food just about everywhere unless fat/sugar is added to them. Probably due to the way mass production and transportation of food goes in to the US. It wasn't like that. There is nothing wrong with our soil. I spent some time in India, Thailand, Vietnam, Japan and Korea and the veggies are almost like they grow in your home garden. Go to a store and pick out a tomato and it is impossibly good. America has farmers markets in every city, even in some of the most impoverished cities. But that's not where the majority of the middle class goes to shop for their vegetables.

Try growing veggies in your own garden on American soil and its gonna taste amazing.

Don't worry, Asian population wants malls, walmarts, and giant grocery stores with similar tasteless food. It is happening at a massive unprecedented scale.

Re: Biohacking Lite

#126
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a long history of back pain going back to college (32 now). As I've gotten older (and a bit bigger) I've started to get knee pain in addition if I run a lot. So I recently switched to biking which has honestly been way more fun, opened me up to exploring more parts of my city and the surrounding area than running did, and I haven't really had any associated pains since starting roughly a year ago. I still drin…

Back pain is almost always an indicator of posterior chain weakness. Do daily squats (just up & down), and do toe-touch-stretches (legs about 2x shoulder width, right-hand-to-left-toe, stand up with arms in the air, left-hand-to-right-toe). Personally, I just do weighted squats & heavy deadlift, but if your knees are bad, that's a bad idea. You can chat with a PT for 50–80$ and they can tell you exactly what's wrong…

It's been an ongoing, years-long effort to find the root cause and alleviate the pain. I was finally diagnosed with degenerative disc disease (aka shitty spinal discs). One particularly pessimistic doctor said I was "an otherwise healthy thirty year old with the back of a 70 year old" after looking at my MRI, though others I have seen said it's not THAT bad. I was a fairly accomplished High School Cross Country runner and ran for years after graduating, so I have to imagine that was cause for some of the issues I have today but the doctors have all said it could have been any number of things.

I did recently have two radiofrequency ablations done, which burned the nerves that were giving me considerable pain. So far it's been successful and my biking/walking/lightweight lifting routine has probably helped too.

Re: Biohacking Lite

#127
post #95
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing inherently wrong with "processed" food There's a distinction between processed and ultra-processed (or highly processed). For example, canned fish is processed (added salt and oil), while a frozen TV dinner is ultra-processed (many ingredients added, some of which you probably don't have in your kitchen). Processed food is fine assuming you're aware of what's in it, how it's processed, and make sur…

> There's a distinction between processed and ultra-processed (or highly processed). For example, canned fish is processed (added salt and oil), while a frozen TV dinner is ultra-processed (many ingredients added, some of which you probably don't have in your kitchen). Sure, but OP said ban all processed food. That's what I'm responding to, not "ban all ultra-processed food." That said, I do find your categorization…

> Does that make McDonald's a healthy option? Absolutely not. But why is McDonald's unhealthy? It's because the food they serve is unhealthy. It's not that the food that is served at McDonald's is unhealthy because McDonald's is unhealthy.

It sounds to me like this is the crux of your argument.

I think I'd agree and hopefully add some clarifying points.

1. Processing

Processing doesn't necessarily make things less healthy. It depends on the type of processing and what is being processed.

If you blend a steak, it isn't less good for you (although it is more susceptible to food poisoning). Adding heat to things like meat can actually make them more bio-available since they're easier to digest. Adding heat to vegetables can break down certain vitamins and make the result less healthy.

Additionally, heating food in certain ways can make it less healthy because of the cooking process. Anything that chars the food or introduces partially combusted hydrocarbons (burned cooking oil, grilling/smoking, etc.) adds carcinogens to the food.

2. Macro-nutrient profile

Food satiety is relatively well understood: protein, water and fiber are all appetite suppressants. People need a certain amount of fat and probably desire at least a small amount of carbs (although the last part can be overcome in some people).

For a sedentary person, a diet high in carbs and fat is probably not good, as it will result in weight gain.

For someone with higher energy needs - say someone building a trail through the woods with a mattock - they may need to eat 6000 Calories per day just to maintain their body weight.

For a sedentary person, a diet high in protein will be distasteful and probably wasteful.

For professional athletes competing in strength sports, they may eat over 2g / kg of body mass of protein as part of a diet tailored to their goals.

Broadly speaking, in order to promote the health of a person, the macro-nutrient profile of their food should match their body and their activity levels.

3. Micro-nutrients

Eating vegetables are good for you. The more raw the vegetables are, the better they are for you (probably). There is often a trade-off that needs to be struck between palatability and optimum health benefit.

There is also a wide array of micro-nutrients that can come from eating meat of various sorts.

There are many conflicting opinions here, without a broad consensus, so I'll leave it at that.

4. Weird stuff

Often times people will bring up ingredients in processed food that they don't know what it is, or even how to pronounce it.

I don't think people are bad to want to avoid stuff like that.

But for the most part, I have real doubts that this is the cause an health problems in even a small fraction of consumers.

Re: Biohacking Lite

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are croissant expensive, look to be about 50 euro-cents each in France (about the same as UK; hypermarché /supermarket)? That's cheap, right? Bake at home ones are half that. Cheapest "fresh" at Carrefour are 20 euro-cents. https://www.carrefour.fr/s?q=croissant Are village bakeries still a thing in France?

> Are village bakeries still a thing in France? Very much so. You find bakeries in every village / town, usually less than 15 min walking in any city. I don't know many people in France who buy supermarket croissant (except when you buy very large quantities for groups for example). And it's very common for people to go to their local bakery (small, 2 or 3 employee) to buy bread every two days.

Merci, je n'y suis pas allé depuis une vingtaine d'années; J'adore un pain-au-choc chaud le matin.

Re: Biohacking Lite

#129
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of that last point can be attributed to gradual improvement and acclimation to that improvement. If you were able to snapshot mood and mental health like you could a picture of your body, you might see a marked improvement over pre-healthy-lifestyle vs., say, post-1-year-healthy-lifestyle. For example, I've been losing weight and doing body-weight training the last month-and-a-half and a picture of my b…

A lot of people also aren't "in tune" with their bodies, especially those with weaker autobiographical memories. Many just don't internalize or remember how they feel over different time periods except for extreme events (emotional, strong smells, etc.). Unless they have a hangover, they don't much consider how they feel on a relative scale, let alone try to tie it back to their past diet or lifestyle. Throw in a lot…

>Even now, with the gyms closed for months, I can feel that newly acquired skill slipping and predictably, my self discipline slides too. I've almost forgotten how good it feels after a nice workout.

Right? I've noticed my own mental health is slipping and I'm certain I can track it to things closing, me working from home more often, and my eating worse.

The unknown and anxiety around the start of the lockdowns and pandemic made me gravitate towards the 'comfort' foods and it's been a slow decline in mood and physical health since. Thankfully I've started to recognize this and remember how I felt before the start of all this so now I'm slowly working towards that point again.

Re: Biohacking Lite

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really like to know which fast food restaurant allows "normal" eating. They all use sugar, they are all way too fatty and salty. And vegetables are hard . (No, fried potatoes do not count) > "You can, however, find packaged sugarfree yogurt" That stuff is a miracle of modern chemistry. It has, however, only a passing resemblance to actual yoghurt. Nobody who grew up in Europe really wants sugar-free. It's "no…

Name literally any fast food place and you can get a plain salad with tomatoes, lettuce, sometimes spinach, carrots, broccoli, etc, as well as various types of plain grilled meat if you want protein. It won't be delicious, but vegetables certainly are not hard to get, even at fast food places. And that's before considering places that actually make a concerted effort to provide healthier options like Panera Bread, wh…

This is really interesting - I'd love to sit down and compare notes how we arrived at two completely different views of the food world. (It even holds for the "plain nuts" comment - I find it incredibly hard to get nuts that aren't roasted and/or salted)
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