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Looking back at how Signal works

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Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#121

Post by anamexis »

grandmczeb wrote: post #116
anamexis wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, then what is it besides a term for antifascism? And how was the "is there not a consensus on antifascism" question invalid?

Antifa is a term people associate with far-left pseudo anarchist groups that engage in property damage, physical violence and harassment. Wikipedia has more context if you're interested[1]. > And how was the "is there not a consensus on antifascism" question invalid? It's not an invalid question, just a leading one. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

I understand what you're saying and I agree to some extent. And I'm coming at this with someone who's been adjacent with the left for a long time.

But even reading the Wikipedia article, it describes such a broad range of ideologies and tactics that I think the only thing really unifying the term is literally being anti-fascist. This has been my personal experience as well - I know a lot of people who identify as antifa, but they vary wildly in how that manifests.

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#122

Post by EmilioMartinez »

chishaku wrote: post #97
EmilioMartinez wrote: post #35

I'm glad to see the discussion about what privacy should look like progress, with increasingly big actors treat data as something too delicate to play warden until the next breach. But it just feels cheap and detrimental to LARP as a tool for revolutionaries. I want a clear concept of privacy for a stable society to rely upon. That even the most trustworthy authority be kept out by design as a security principle. I d…

> feels cheap and detrimental Cool, pick a new app. It’s naive to think a small group will work against very powerful forces and against all odds and not be ideologically driven.

I'm talking about the discourse sorroundig privacy, not literally specifically about my phone. I hate to see it marketed as a tool of revolution instead of just common sense practices.

Your use of "ideologically driven" is confusing. Of course they should be driven, by their ideology on how a messaging app should be. But how could their opinion on the protest drive them? Just some weeks ago a whole different crew was taking the streets fighting for their own "freedom reasons". Some years ago there was the sad tiki parade.

It's like setting up a gun shop in Syria and claim your guns kill "the bad guys", whatever that means to the customer.

I'll choose the app that works best for me, and will call it out when someone feeds the meme that privacy is for rioters, unwittingly even.

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#123

Post by Multicomp »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #62
eeZah7Ux wrote: post #54

Signal is a walled garden. They refuse to allow federation and even prohibit any modified client to use their servers. It's the least open "open source" model, and once (if) they gain significant market share they can easily close down the app and lock-in the users. Please use and spread federated alternatives. Donate and contribute.

What alternative would you recommend?

TL;DR / I accidentally wish-listed myself:

Sign in to matrix.org with Riot Android / IOS / Web

Like sibling poster, XMPP with OMEMO encryption is an option, but it requires setting up an xmpp server with ejabberd or prosody software, then installing Gajim on your PCs and Conversations (paid via play store, free via F-Droid) for Android / a good iOS Xmpp client that supports OMEMO.

Except for techies, ^ is waaaay too much for people who are just looking to have an alternative to Signal's lock-in. I can barely get people to install the signal app and click open :)

I currently recommend installing Riot IOS / Riot Android and logging in to the free Matrix.org instance, which does not use your phone number or anything.

In the future I hope to recommend whatever P2P Matrix phone app comes out, and you just share your ids with friends via QR code handshakes and boom, you are off to the races with nothing but an internet connection and a friend ID. Metadata is all local to phones, so nothing to see.

In the medium future, I also hope to recommend cwtch.im which is the replacement for richochet, a metadata resistant p2p e2ee messaging app.

In the far future, I hope to have something like a smartphone mobile ad hoc network-based p2p e2ee app where you scan qr codes to handshake and you either communicate over the internet (like p2p matrix) or over mesh network as long as you are within 10 hops of another device (like bridgefy or firechat). Bonus points if one can DIY a passive repeater that works with the mesh network.

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#124

Post by billme »

jlund wrote: post #106
billme wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, while the DevOps code is not open source, the server and app code are on GitHub; that is you’re able to roll your own version however it defined by the licensing; recent attack on Signal by security researcher used a self-compiled app as a proof of concept; Signal patched the issue.

Just to clarify, the bug you're talking about was in WebRTC. We submitted a patch upstream: https://webrtc-review.googlesource.com/c/src/+/175960

Right, here’s another comment on the topic by Signal staff too: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=pthatcherg

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#126

Post by CGamesPlay »

billme wrote: post #94
m52go wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal entities can move to other jurisdictions, sure, but it doesn't matter because app distribution still occurs primarily through USA-based Google Play and USA-based Apple App Store—both of which can easily geofence apps as they please (or as they're required). This is one of the reasons I've started to appreciate Matrix a lot more lately. https://matrix.org/blog/2020/01/02/on-privacy-versus-freedom

Putting aside Signal officially declining to the add option to discover or manually add a server via the client, theirs nothing stopping anyone from going to GitHub, downloading the code for the server and client, editing the code however they see fit as long as it follows the legal guidelines.

> long as it follows the legal guidelines.

So like, as long as they add in the backdoor?

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#127

Post by billme »

windthrown wrote: post #92
billme wrote: post #18

Anyone have a link to Signal’s 2019 IRS Form 990? Most recent I was able to find was this 2018 version: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23431076

The 2019 filing deadline (including Form 990) was extended to July 15, 2020 so it may not be published yet.

Thanks, makes sense, though guess I would expect a non-profit to communicate this; don’t believe Signal even links to the 990 I linked to on their own website; possible they don’t want the public to (easily) know salaries, assets, etc - but unclear.

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#128

Post by anamexis »

r7373hd wrote: post #118
anamexis wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there isn't. "All lives matter" and "pro-life" represent specific political views, but they don't represent any specific groups or organizations. Just like antifa.

You're being obtuse for no reason. This is like saying ISIS isn't an a specific group because it is comprised of transregional autonomous cells instead of any specific group. Sure, maybe in the most literal application of terms, but it's obvious what's being discussed from context clues. Decentralized movements are the status quo of activism these days, that doesn't mean you can't reference the movement as a collecti…

I'm arguing that antifa isn't even a decentralized movement. Wildly different parts of the left, both in ideology and preferred tactics, ascribe to the antifa label.

I think a better analogy than ISIS would be "groups that say they uphold the ideals of Islam."

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#129

Post by grandmczeb »

anamexis wrote: post #121
grandmczeb wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antifa is a term people associate with far-left pseudo anarchist groups that engage in property damage, physical violence and harassment. Wikipedia has more context if you're interested[1]. > And how was the "is there not a consensus on antifascism" question invalid? It's not an invalid question, just a leading one. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

I understand what you're saying and I agree to some extent. And I'm coming at this with someone who's been adjacent with the left for a long time. But even reading the Wikipedia article, it describes such a broad range of ideologies and tactics that I think the only thing really unifying the term is literally being anti-fascist. This has been my personal experience as well - I know a lot of people who identify as ant…

It's fair to argue that what people associate with "antifa" does not accurately describe all the groups or people who use it to describe themselves. But that doesn't really change the connotation of the term.

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#130

Post by [deleted] »

CGamesPlay wrote: post #126
billme wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting aside Signal officially declining to the add option to discover or manually add a server via the client, theirs nothing stopping anyone from going to GitHub, downloading the code for the server and client, editing the code however they see fit as long as it follows the legal guidelines.

> long as it follows the legal guidelines. So like, as long as they add in the backdoor?

[deleted]
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