Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#121

Post by ksdale » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 7:59 PM UTC

wwweston wrote: post #111

ceejayoz wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Surgeon General: https://twitter.com/surgeon_general/status/12337257852839321... "Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus..."

This is an instance of what I described in my above comment. "STOP BUYING MASKS" is not "Masks don't work," especially given the rest of the context of the statement where he's saying they're important to protect high-exposure roles healthcare providers. Which means he's also saying they work. "They are not effective in preventing the general public" might be reasonably interpreted as "masks don't work", but given th…

Even with this very charitable interpretation, he was still completely incorrect about their effectiveness for stopping public spread, was he not?

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#122

Post by claytongulick » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:00 PM UTC

ardy42 wrote: post #81

kazinator wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations in the USA are not free to do business with whomever they choose. Can a USA corporation sell rocket launchers to Iran? Can a USA company buy the president of Ruritania a Rolex watch in order to beat a French company in a bridge construction bid? Can a USA corporation get together with its cohorts and agree not to sell some commodity below a mutually agreed price? Can a US citizen obtain and act on advice…

>> A libertarian complaining about a private company choosing not to do business with them? Damn those big corporations and their... checks notes freedom to do business with who they choose? > Corporations in the USA are not free to do business with whomever they choose. But wouldn't a libertarian (or at least some of them) be opposed to those restrictions on the individual liberty of corporations?

I think the general feeling of a libertarian would be more along the lines of being opposed to government restrictions on individual liberty. I think the idea of raising awareness and affecting corporate decisions by applying market forces is directly in-line with most libertarian thinking.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#123

Post by floatingatoll » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:00 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #91

Big Streisand effect on this one, I followed him in the past and noticed his Twitter has exploded in followers/attention since Amazon censored his book. I decided to read the book to see why it was so threatening and worthy of Amazon crossing into such a dangerous line into censorship. And it was mostly a milquetoast glorified blog post. I also watched that stupid Plandemic video, which I never would have otherwise,…

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#124

Post by ksdale » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:01 PM UTC

clairity wrote: post #107

wwweston wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Remember what the official word was for all too long: masks don't work, but save them for health workers. Who said masks don't work? What I recall people saying is: * most masks provide marginal protection to the wearer * the masks that provide effective protection should be saved for those in situations where they need them (and can be knowledgeably used) * most people probably don't need those masks There's a wor…

> "Who said masks don't work? What I recall people saying is: > * most masks provide marginal protection to the wearer > * the masks that provide effective protection should be saved for those in situations where they need them (and can be knowledgeably used) > * most people probably don't need those masks" yup, moreover, masks are marginal on top of other measures, most notably distancing. masks can make a differenc…

It may be similarly dogmatic, but there are degrees of correctness, and a world where everyone wears masks all the time is one with with much less coronavirus than one where no one except medical professionals wear them.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#125

Post by tsbinz » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:02 PM UTC

darawk wrote: post #98

wwweston wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Remember what the official word was for all too long: masks don't work, but save them for health workers. Who said masks don't work? What I recall people saying is: * most masks provide marginal protection to the wearer * the masks that provide effective protection should be saved for those in situations where they need them (and can be knowledgeably used) * most people probably don't need those masks There's a wor…

The CDC and WHO both at various times recommended against the general public wearing masks. https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/4/13/21214114/media-coronavi... This advice was wrong. It is not just sick people that benefit from wearing masks. It is not true that people are flattening that into "masks don't work". Masks don't work was repeated many, many times by these organizations. Here's an example: https://www.cidrap.…

I'm not sure about "severe consequences". If you compare Switzerland (where, although the government now recommends masks in public transport at least but almost nobody does wear a mask) and Austria (where wearing masks while shopping/in public transport etc was made mandatory when the restrictions were eased), you don't see much of a difference in the amount of new cases. I do believe masks work and I do wear one when I'm going near other people (not when I go for a run) but seeing how few people wear masks here and it seemingly not making a difference does make me wonder how essential they are, and it makes me doubt people blaming the severity of the outbreak in the US on the confused mask messaging.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#126

Post by nickff » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:06 PM UTC

stusmall wrote: post #100

millettjon wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once they publisher reaches near monopoly status this is censorship.

What? I'd be shocked if Amazon even published a majority of books sold. There is no way they are monopoly or even close. I looked and couldn't find reliable stats on it. Does anyone else have any?

A majority by number of unique titles, or by sales volume? I would not be surprised to see Amazon publishing a very large fraction of 'long-tail' (almost self-published) books, and these likely make up a large fraction of all titles published.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#127

Post by wwweston » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:06 PM UTC

darawk wrote: post #98

wwweston wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Remember what the official word was for all too long: masks don't work, but save them for health workers. Who said masks don't work? What I recall people saying is: * most masks provide marginal protection to the wearer * the masks that provide effective protection should be saved for those in situations where they need them (and can be knowledgeably used) * most people probably don't need those masks There's a wor…

The CDC and WHO both at various times recommended against the general public wearing masks. https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/4/13/21214114/media-coronavi... This advice was wrong. It is not just sick people that benefit from wearing masks. It is not true that people are flattening that into "masks don't work". Masks don't work was repeated many, many times by these organizations. Here's an example: https://www.cidrap.…

> recommended against the general public wearing masks.

which masks? for what reasons?

> It is not true that people are flattening that into "masks don't work"...Here's an example:

This is an example... of how the advice got flattened. Quoting from that first link:

"Surgical masks likely have some utility as source control (meaning the wearer limits virus dispersal to another person)" "Respirators, though, are the only option that can ensure protection for frontline workers dealing with COVID-19 cases, once all of the strategies for optimizing respirator supply have been implemented."

See anything familiar from my earlier comment in there? Surgical masks are not personally protective, but they reduce transmission. Respirators are protective, but should not be general public resort.

The second article? It's talking about a global shortage, so it's clear which kind of masks they're recommending people not wear. Same with the last article... which also has a later section talking about how masks slow transmission and can be effective.

So... yeah. People were absolutely flattening the advice. And apparently some still are.

If you want, you can transform that into a communications argument, but like I said above, that reinforces the position that curation is an important part of the process.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#128

Post by dahdum » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:06 PM UTC

wwweston wrote: post #111

ceejayoz wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Surgeon General: https://twitter.com/surgeon_general/status/12337257852839321... "Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus..."

This is an instance of what I described in my above comment. "STOP BUYING MASKS" is not "Masks don't work," especially given the rest of the context of the statement where he's saying they're important to protect high-exposure roles healthcare providers. Which means he's also saying they work. "They are not effective in preventing the general public" might be reasonably interpreted as "masks don't work", but given th…

Here's an extended quote of his, found on Snopes fact check.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/surgeon-general-against-ma... > One of the things [the general public] shouldn’t be doing is going out and buying masks … It has not been proven to be effective in preventing the spread of coronavirus amongst the general public … Folks who don’t know how to wear them properly tend to touch their faces a lot, and actually can increase the spread of coronavirus. You can increase your risk of getting it by wearing a mask if you are not a healthcare provider.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#129

Post by mopsi » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:07 PM UTC

dougmany wrote: post #114

darawk wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CDC and WHO both at various times recommended against the general public wearing masks. https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/4/13/21214114/media-coronavi... This advice was wrong. It is not just sick people that benefit from wearing masks. It is not true that people are flattening that into "masks don't work". Masks don't work was repeated many, many times by these organizations. Here's an example: https://www.cidrap.…

At least two of those links had nuanced reasons that matched the parent's remarks. One even literately had a three point explanation: * There is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission * Their use may result in those wearing the masks to relax other distancing efforts because they have a sense of protection * We need to preserve the supply of surgical masks for at-ris…

> * We need to preserve the supply of surgical masks for at-risk healthcare workers.

Do hospitals get their stocks from hardware stores in boxes of ten? As much as I've seen, they buy from large distributors who prioritize government agencies and often don't serve individual consumers at all.

Re: Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns

#130

Post by wvenable » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 8:07 PM UTC

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #70

pen2l wrote: post #2

After a half hour long conversation with my neighbor last week of him trying to convince me that Bill Gates is behind coronavirus, please, for the love of our future, continue banning information that is blatantly put up on a bad faith basis. It's exhausting to see my mom and dad succumb to a new conspiracy every other day. I don't see how else we can curb this other than for the tech companies to start aggressively…

Wow...just wow. The only way to deal with people having bad ideas is censorship? Seriously? What about improving education, building functional (and trusted) institutions, and having more independent (non-profit driven) media? It really bothers me that there is a group of people begging for corporate overloads to control and think for the population. Its literally the opposite of everything this country stands for.

> What about improving education, building functional (and trusted) institutions, and having more independent (non-profit driven) media?

What would education do except promote good ideas and reject bad ideas? What would trusted institutions do except promote good ideas and reject bad ideas? What would independent media do to improve things except promote good ideas and reject bad ideas?