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Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

workmanlayout.org

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Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#121

Post by block_dagger »

bbx wrote: post #115

I think typing efficiently on a keyboard is akin to playing the piano with good technique. I often see musicians playing piano (or keyboard synths) with improprer technique. They move their wrist a lot, bend their finger backwards to apply pressure, and tense their fingers by laying them flat. This causes stress in the motion and fatigue over time. All (or most) the pressing power should come from the tip and the pha…

Piano player and programmer here. I largely agree, although I haven’t avoided injury in my 20 years, just learned to manage it.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#122

Post by daffy »

V-2 wrote: post #114
thanhhaimai wrote: post #14

For people looking to try a new layout, I recommend a Carpalx optimized layout. They have very detailed analysis on the layout: http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?full_optimization I've been using it on my Kinesis for a while, and it's totally worth it: https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/ki...

I'm long aware of this website. Fascinating stuff. I wonder how this Workman Layout would fare, evaluted by their algorithm?

There is an analysis of Workman here:

http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?popular_alternatives

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#123

Post by sergeykish »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #86

DON'T DO IT* I absolutely love Workman. It's gorgeous. I spent months learning it, getting fast with it. I even got the supercool matrix style keyboard, I was so into it. But now I use QWERTY, and I sold my matrix style keyboard. Why? 1. Using the standard is useful. Other people's computers use QWERTY. Terminals for typing things in airports use QWERTY. When you have to do first aid stuff on your system, you're not…

There is a truth here. But doesn't it sound like don't install applications, don't customize your system? It is a personal computer. And defaults are bad.

I can hardly type QWERTY and it is fine.

On the other hand - Dvorak, swapped Ctrl and Alt, Caps Lock to switch language. And that's in tiling WM on minor Linux distribution. When you break things you can break them hard.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#124

Post by sergeykish »

trisiak wrote: post #51

I too suffered from wrist pain and fatigue in the past. The experimentation with different layouts helped a little but it felt like micro-optimization. What actually resolved the problem was switching to an unorthodox ergonomic keyboard where none of the keys required straining or unnecessary effort (kinesis advantage, using a different one these days). Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special k…

What helped we is switch from C++ to Ruby. I see analogy to guitar player here too.

And Dvorak of course. I can use it on notebook.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#125

Post by scns »

shirro wrote: post #23

A lot of keyboards optimize the wrong things at least as far as programming is concerned. All the optimizations seem to focus on letters but most of the time an editor or shell can auto complete keywords or identifiers. A ridiculous number of symbols seem to be a very long way from the home keys on weak fingers with modifiers required to access them. If I had to write huge amounts of plain prose and had RSI I think I…

The Neo2 layout optimizes for this. Ebene (Layer) 3 has (){}[] directly under the strongest fingers. On layer 4 you can type arrows, del, backspace, enter, pgup/down, tab, esc and insert without moving your hand. Using it for several years now and every time i have to use qwertz i realise how far the keys i have to press in sequence are distanced from each other. This layout is optimized for typing 70% of german and english words from the home row.

https://git.neo-layout.org/neo/neo-layout/wiki/Grafiken

It is included in a lot of linux distributions.

It was useable on Windows 7/10, but last time i tried on 10 (long ago) it didn't work since Microsoft changed something. Could be working, i rarely boot into Windows so i did not bother trying.

https://git.neo-layout.org/neo/neo-layout/wiki/Neo-unter-Win...

Should be useable on OSX with: https://karabiner-elements.pqrs.org/

https://git.neo-layout.org/neo/neo-layout/wiki/Neo-auf-dem-A...

There is a graphic for users of the kinetic advantage too:

https://git.neo-layout.org/neo/neo-layout/wiki/raw/neo_advan...

A review: https://geekoverdose.wordpress.com/2016/12/27/how-i-taught-m...

(edit: added links, review and useage sentence)

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#126

Post by xupybd »

I'd really love to see some serious work go into studying keyboard layouts to see if they actually make the differences claimed.

Not that I'm sceptical more that I'd like to be able to quantify the difference they are worth. I'd love to try one out but not sure it's worth the time investment.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#127

Post by sergeykish »

klodolph wrote: post #13

An oversight in the layout, in my mind—the human hand is better at typing in certain directions… the hands very naturally roll towards the center, but it is less natural to rotate away from the center. This is… somewhat covered in the article under SHU… > It is much more efficient to ride the momentum of a single arm or wrist stroke and type a combo rather than just one key. Try ASDF versus FDSA on a QWERTY layout. A…

I see no difference in rolling direction - both ASDF and FDSA feels uncomfortable. Try common words - FUEL vs THEN on Dvorak. Same for me.

I agree with metrics part - as a long time Dvorak user I feel article undervalues hand alternation and victimizes middle column. For me bottom row outer keys a weak part.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#128

Post by beaker52 »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #86

DON'T DO IT* I absolutely love Workman. It's gorgeous. I spent months learning it, getting fast with it. I even got the supercool matrix style keyboard, I was so into it. But now I use QWERTY, and I sold my matrix style keyboard. Why? 1. Using the standard is useful. Other people's computers use QWERTY. Terminals for typing things in airports use QWERTY. When you have to do first aid stuff on your system, you're not…

Also wouldn't recommend. I switched to Colemak back in the day. Switched all my phone keyboard and everything. I was a typing god.

Started a new job where I ended up having to switch to qwerty for pairing sessions, typing like I was using a computer keyboard for the first time, never mind interviews where one might need to live code on a foreign machine. Having to explain "oh hai, yeah I actually use a different keyboard layout because my fingers move less but it hamstrings me whenever I sit at _anyone elses_ keyboard" just doesn't cut it. If you've got issues that'd be helped by better typing ergonomics and really need to switch then go for it.

Otherwise, don't waste your time, just get better at typing qwerty, trust me.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#129

Post by nvarsj »

underyx wrote: post #95
trisiak wrote: post #51

I too suffered from wrist pain and fatigue in the past. The experimentation with different layouts helped a little but it felt like micro-optimization. What actually resolved the problem was switching to an unorthodox ergonomic keyboard where none of the keys required straining or unnecessary effort (kinesis advantage, using a different one these days). Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special k…

> Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special keys (shift, ctrl, backspace, enter) and that's not something colemak, dvorak or their friends seem to be addressing. You're still mostly right, but Colemak does actually move Backspace to the Caps Lock key, which is a change I'd recommend to every single person who types on a computer keyboard.

I'm not convinced by that. I use thumb clusters now, but on a normal keyboard I would always move my whole hand and hit backspace with my right ring finger. Similarly with modifiers I would either karate chop or move my hand. Using pinky should be avoided if possible. Similarly the common recommendation to bind caps lock to control is the worst possible thing for RSI.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#130

Post by mmlkrx »

A few years ago I took the plunge and started learning Colemak after extensive typing left me with pain in my hands. I haven't had any typing related issues since so personally I can recommend learning an alternative keyboard layout (whether that be Workman, Dvorak, Colemak, or other).

Using qwerty on other people's computers has never been an issue since I use my own machine most of the time. I do have to look at the keyboard when typing qwerty but it's quick enough so I don't really mind.

If you're curious what it feels like to type Colemak, I wrote a small app a few years ago which simulates Colemak for someone on a qwerty keyboard:

http://mmlkrx.github.io/colemak-typing-simulator/

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