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Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

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Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#121

Post by raverbashing »

ses1984 wrote: post #105
partyboat1586 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a study that shows higher all cause mortality please link it. My hypothesis would be that healthy people don't take vitamins because they never saw the need, putting already sick people in the second category. I doubt that taking vitamins can actually do much harm in low doses.

I just Googled "vitamins lead to higher all cause mortality." First result: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111010173019.h... >After adjustment, use of multivitamins, vitamin B6, folic acid, iron, magnesium, zinc and copper, were all associated with increased risk of death in the study population. The top three links showed association between beta carotene supplementation and risk of death. A little fu…

The risk of excessive iron is known and not new

If you read that link you'll see the findings for iron and calcium were replicated. (Not to mention this article is basically referencing a different article which is somewhere else, so we're missing the context)

The B12 issue, as the own article mentions, is not necessarily connected to a dietary excess consumption

> Participants within the highest quartile of vitamin B12 plasma concentrations (>455.41 pg/mL) were more likely to be older and have higher BMI and blood pressure.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#122

Post by woeirua »

cj wrote: post #38
RL_Quine wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many are toxic (vitamin D included) in unsuitable amounts, that’s probably too strong of a statement.

The study mentions 1,000 IU D3 dosage. A quick google turns up a rough figure of 60,000 IU "daily for multiple months" can become toxic. You're probably right, most things taken at 100x the normal dose for long period of time are toxic. (Water included)

Water is lethal at far less than 100x the normal dose. Google hyponatremia. You can die from ingesting a gallon of water in a few minutes.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#123

Post by valarauko »

cseleborg wrote: post #99
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right and it is no secret: - 40% of US Americans are B12 deficient https://www.livekindly.co/b12-deficiency-genetic-makeup/#:~:... . - 42% are Vitamin D deficient: https://www.cantonmercy.org/healthchat/42-percent-of-america... . - up to 50% are Magnesium deficient: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180226122548.h... - 10 - 20% of women are iron deficient: https://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0301/p671.h…

I've always wondered about this deficiency thing. How is it defined, and does it make any sense to claim that such a large part of the population is deficient? Shouldn't that be considered "normal" (excluding the truly pathological cases), as opposed to "above-average"?

At least for Vit D and B12, the healthy levels were determined by establishing levels in "healthy" cohorts. Deficiency diseases for both of these vitamins are relatively rare, so it is easier to establish a wider "safe" range, rather than "deficiency" ranges.

There's been a great deal of debate on safe Vit D levels, and the consensus (such as it is) is that a serum level of 30 ng/mL is likely optimal. Yet there are many studies that show healthy individuals with serum levels There's a similar situation with Vit B12. Reference ranges were established from healthy individuals based on dietary intake, and there is no upper limit. It's also unclear what the bottom of the healthy range is either. A relatively recent investigation by the health authorities in India found that the dietary intake of B12 of the average Indian was less than a tenth of the US average, with no obvious ill effects. B12 deficiency diseases are practically unheard of in India, yet when tested against American references, a large portion of the population is "deficient". The Indian authorities eventually set the recommended intake of B12 to the WHO standard, which is a lot lower than the American or European levels.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#124

Post by Vysero »

ageitgey wrote: post #2

N=43 (17 given vitamins vs 26 not) Highlights: "Significantly fewer DMB patients than controls required initiation of oxygen therapy subsequently throughout their hospitalization (17.6% vs 61.5%, P=0.006)." "DMB combination in older COVID-19 patients was associated with a significant reduction in proportion of patients with clinical deterioration requiring oxygen support and/or intensive care support. This study supp…

Some scientists were calling for these studies on YouTube but those videos were all banned sadly... I was lucky enough to catch one of them before they got banned though.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#125

Post by Exmoor »

bonoboTP wrote: post #59
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right and it is no secret: - 40% of US Americans are B12 deficient https://www.livekindly.co/b12-deficiency-genetic-makeup/#:~:... . - 42% are Vitamin D deficient: https://www.cantonmercy.org/healthchat/42-percent-of-america... . - up to 50% are Magnesium deficient: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180226122548.h... - 10 - 20% of women are iron deficient: https://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0301/p671.h…

If so, and I think it is so, do capitalistic employers who employ highly paid employees (like software developers in the US) incentivize them (pay the cost and time to) check these things medically and get supplements etc? Brain fog and general sluggishness etc can directly impact the creative output of these highly paid professionals.

To some extent they do. I've worked at employers who prioritize diet (on site cafe's with posted nutritional information), exercise (on site locker rooms with showers, subsidized gym memberships and reimbursement for employee purchased exercise equipment), work-life balance, etc. I think at this point most employees would bristle a bit if their employer started providing on-site blood tests to check vitamin levels (Imagine the HN threads!), but I could see that changing if it became a more popular thing for people to do on their own.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#126

Post by JohnBooty »

tootie wrote: post #89
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right and it is no secret: - 40% of US Americans are B12 deficient https://www.livekindly.co/b12-deficiency-genetic-makeup/#:~:... . - 42% are Vitamin D deficient: https://www.cantonmercy.org/healthchat/42-percent-of-america... . - up to 50% are Magnesium deficient: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180226122548.h... - 10 - 20% of women are iron deficient: https://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0301/p671.h…

I wouldn't be surprised if quarantine is leading to an historic spike in D deficiency.

I suspect it's exactly the opposite.

During quarantine, you have far fewer people spending most of their waking hours in huge concrete coffins.

How many people even get to see the sun during a typical workday, much less spend time in direct sunlight?

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#127

Post by axegon_ »

snikeris wrote: post #108
axegon_ wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, but even with green vegetables, you'll struggle to get anywhere near the daily recommendation, around 400mg per adult. And that might be significantly more if you are active in some sports for muscle recovery. Personally I can feel the difference given that I exercise daily and I do a 20000 step walks every morning. But yeah, I rely on supplements, which is kind of the easy way out. And even the very good ones a…

Curious what you're taking. I've been taking Magnesium L Threonate, but I'm not sure about it. Seems like a newer, perhaps less studied form. Also, what difference are you feeling?

Magnesium citrate 200mg(now foods) + animal pak (which includes another 400mg along with a bunch of other vitamins and minerals. I'm a bit over the daily recommendation with those two but most of my spare time revolves around sports since the pandemic so yeah...

Differences:

- Sleep is considerably better.

- Haven't had a single muscle cramp even after something like a 30km walk + 60km bike + gym. Otherwise a common occurrence because genetically I have incredibly strong legs and virtually no body fat on my legs.

- Generally I'm less moody and far less likely to (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ when something stupid happens at work for instance.

- No exhaustion whatsoever.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#128

Post by valarauko »

andy_ppp wrote: post #54
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right and it is no secret: - 40% of US Americans are B12 deficient https://www.livekindly.co/b12-deficiency-genetic-makeup/#:~:... . - 42% are Vitamin D deficient: https://www.cantonmercy.org/healthchat/42-percent-of-america... . - up to 50% are Magnesium deficient: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180226122548.h... - 10 - 20% of women are iron deficient: https://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0301/p671.h…

These are also from recommended amounts which we have no idea what optimal is. Has there been studies to say what the blood levels of vitamin d etc. should actually be?

The scientific consensus tends to suggest a serum level of Vit D ~ 30 ng/mL as optimal. Bone abnormalities are expected with levels healthy individuals show most people at <20 ng/mL. My take on the reports is that you want supplementation if it's below 10 ng/mL, with diminishing returns past that. The supplementation required to achieve 30 ng, or even 20 ng/mL for most people probably isn't worth it, and with unintended health consequences. Brown and black people likely have significantly lower "healthy" levels that don't warrant supplementation.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#129

Post by MrStonedOne »

hannob wrote: post #44
ageitgey wrote: post #2

N=43 (17 given vitamins vs 26 not) Highlights: "Significantly fewer DMB patients than controls required initiation of oxygen therapy subsequently throughout their hospitalization (17.6% vs 61.5%, P=0.006)." "DMB combination in older COVID-19 patients was associated with a significant reduction in proportion of patients with clinical deterioration requiring oxygen support and/or intensive care support. This study supp…

> Since taking a basic multi-vitamin is good anyway, it seems wise to do that. There is no evidence that taking a basic mulit-vitamin has any benefit for average people. Depending on the composition of vitamins it can be harmful [1]. [1] https://www.cochrane.org/CD007176/LIVER_antioxidant-suppleme...

> There is no evidence that taking a basic mulit-vitamin has any benefit for average people.

I've heard this, before, i've even seen studies linked.

The study you linked shows a 3-4% increase in morality rate, but with a error margin of 95%, that, uhh, doesn't add up to much.

The studies commonly linked usually test healthy people without any vitamin deficiencies in order to see if giving somebody "extra" vitamins has any benefit. A worthless measure when, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, 40% of people have a vitamin deficiency of some kind.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#130

Post by bad_user »

goda90 wrote: post #81
Nursie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many things are almost entirely harmless, but before recommending you do them anyway, you probably want to look at whether there's any point. Turning round in a circle three times before you leave the house is almost entirely harmless, and there's no evidence that doesn't stop you getting coronavirus...

But there is evidence of how deficiencies in these vitamins cause other problems unrelated to coronavirus. If it takes a pandemic to get people to worry about their nutrition, so be it.

> But there is evidence of how deficiencies in these vitamins cause other problems unrelated to coronavirus.

To play the devil's advocate, no, that's not true. What we have are just associations which could be spurious. It is often said the general population is deficient in this or that vitamin, but in the west at least we are no longer in danger of developing scurvy or rickets and beyond that there's actually not much evidence that vitamins improve our health.

(Note — not enough evidence means just that, and is certainly not evidence of absence)

Of course, take your vitamins, I've taken vitamin C and D long before this coronavirus and I've caught colds less frequently — but truth be told, I haven't isolated the variables, I have no idea why I felt better and it could be just coincidence.

The problem in believing diet can make a difference is that it may take resources away from investigating treatments that actually work.

In a clinical setting we are talking about high intravenous doses, which are supposedly meant to give the immune system a boost and not to fix prior deficiencies. There's not much evidence that high intravenous doses work either.

In the context of the population, keeping your distance, washing your hands, wearing masks and even if you catch the virus, minimizing the viral load you're exposed to, will probably do much more good than a healthy diet. If you do everything else, then fine, optimize your diet too, but often people get lost in minutiae, forgetting proper hygiene.

UPDATE: edited multiple times, sorry.

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