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Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

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Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#121

Post by akiselev »

luckylion wrote: post #115
bawolff wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of different types of unions exist. Seems silly to throw the idea out because some unions fought for things that aren't popular with this crowd. Instead make a union that fights for the things you want. They are democratic institutions after all.

What examples do you think of where unions do not/did not lead to more formalized, static, equalized systems, which somebody that likes having impact, being paid and promoted based on his work and not his time with the company etc does not want?

Bewildering syntax aside, that sounds like every big company, ever. Unions don't change the core nature of large organizations, just the power dynamics.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#122

Post by akiselev »

humanrebar wrote: post #118
adrianN wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the argument against forming a new political party is that there are political parties that do things you disagree with?

I think the argument is that a union is more like a party in a winner-take-all system than a party in a multiparty system.

The alternative is the employer winning in a two party system.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#123

Post by humanrebar »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #109

Private companies must never be the arbiters of truth on the internet. Zuckerberg is doing the right thing, against huge internal resistance. You'd think Americans, out of all countries, would understand this.

I think it's fair for private companies to provide curation as a service. I don't think it's a good business model to be both a curator and a platform at the same time outside of maintaining an overall level of safety and decency (pornography, snuff, overt racism, etc.).

I don't see why it's wrong for facebook to stay out of it other than reporting violent language to relevant law enforcement. Seems like assault is already a felony.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#124

Post by humanrebar »

ipsum2 wrote: post #114
0zymandias wrote: post #52

Social media is a dead end. The results are depression and misinformation. Unless you believe truth can easily be determined, there is no tweak that Zuck and Jack can do to fix their platforms. At least Zuck is honest about it.

> Social media is a dead end. The results are depression and misinformation. Honest question. Is Reddit any different? Hacker News? Your average bulletin board?

Reddit is not different with respect to this. HN, mostly, so far, but it does consider certain things more or less off topic, so it's not trying to be a general platform as such.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#125

Post by humanrebar »

vore wrote: post #67
erik_seaberg wrote: post #18

Journalists are quoting Trump's statement as newsworthy. Everyone knows what he said. What's the point of censoring it ineffectually?

It's not about censoring or not censoring. It's about Facebook actually giving a shit about the state of the world it's in, and not just Mark Zuckerberg's incessant handwringing about "feeling disgust" but... doing nothing about it. Too long have abhorrent actions by Donald Trump gone completely unchecked by major platforms and, if Facebook won't even do the token step of doing something about a clearly racist and di…

What's the common standard then? Does it ban leaders of countries that oppress homosexuals and other minorities as policy? Leaders who actually imprison political dissenters?

Donald Trump is a bad president IMO, but there are far worse people (and their spokespeople) active on social media. The inconsistent standard makes this seem more like virtue signalling, which isn't quite "giving a shit about the state of the world".

EDIT: Corrected a typo. I think Trump is a bad president.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#126

Post by elcomet »

baddox wrote: post #63
divbzero wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if they brought down the servers on their way out…

Even then, how much does he care? How many of his mansions does he stand to lose?

He'll then be replaced by shareholders. So he cares.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#127

Post by luckylion »

edoceo wrote: post #54
MattGaiser wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seize the means of production! You realize that means your business too?

Obviously and eventually. Shipmate before self and all.

> Obviously and eventually.

"But please seize my business last"?

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#128

Post by hef19898 »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #49
iscrewyou wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. It's my understanding that doctors and lawyers have professional organizations, which aren't really the same thing as a union. False. Professional organization give licensure. The union represents those who have licenses and or work for an agency where majority of those license holders work. > 2. ...Obviously, unions have played an important role in improving worker safety and security, and that's great. But the…

> False. Professional organization give licensure. The union represents those who have licenses and or work for an agency where majority of those license holders work. Incorrect! Most doctors are probably solo or group practice. This means one or a few doctors work together in a business that they own. This business then contracts with hospitals to provide services. Kaiser Permanente is different in that it hires doc…

Lobbying and advocacy is, besides collective bargaining, a core function of unions. At least in Europe. And yes, these associations, doctors, pharmacists, lawyers, are wielding a lot of power and influence.

As most of these professionals aren't employees, collective bargaining doesn't make a lot of sense. Where they are, in the cade of hospitals, collective bargaining is very much a thing.

EDIT: In western Europe, we all live with things the nions achieved in the later 19th, early 20th century. in Germany, things like paid sick leave, vacation, labour hours, week-ends, etc... are all things union fought for, really hard, to get. As the world changes, which it did back then, employees need to have their say in how things will be handled. Last time, it was through unions. If these unions are up to the tasks regarding digitalization is disputable. But that employees, this time around white collor ones, need their voices to be heard is a given.

I never was in a union as an employee, being white collor made that always a difficult choice. And unions tend to play political and power games. Which I don't like. the alternative so, doesn't seem to be better.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#129

Post by lopis »

vinhboy wrote: post #91
tayo42 wrote: post #28

What's with the cynicism in this posts? They're trying to make a point and bring awareness. Who cares how hard it is. At least they're doing something. To give them credit they're making a political statement at work when we're told not to talk politics at work.

On Reddit there were a lot of "why don't they just quit their job" comments. I am just rolling eyes really hard. To be fair, when I was younger, before I had all these adult responsibilities, that would have probably been my answer as well.

It's still true though. Engineers, specially, have had the power of voting with their CVs for a long time. The only reason Facebook is able to pay ridiculous salaries today is because engineers voted with their CVs continuously for the past 10 years.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#130

Post by humanrebar »

akiselev wrote: post #122
humanrebar wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the argument is that a union is more like a party in a winner-take-all system than a party in a multiparty system.

The alternative is the employer winning in a two party system.

Maybe. Or maybe that's a false choice. Honestly I'm generally unconvinced by "it's us or them" arguments.
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